...jump right into everything cheesemaking-related, but, afraid to get my feet wet, so to speak.
Hi, all!
This is an entirely new world for me, I'm amazed, excited..and a bit dismayed (the latter I will explain more in a bit)...but, I'm oh-so-willing to be taught...molded ^-^ even! I really decided to start making cheese pretty much cos I love feta & goat cheese. After the eleventy three tub the household has consumed since the beginning of the year, I mused to The Guy, "I think it would be really nice to make homemade feta. I wonder how hard it would be?". This was a week & a half ago...and it's been an almost-frenzied interweb search, crouching on library floors, thumbing through what little info they have (I'm surprised since this is a farming area), and a rather premature 2 "newbie" kit orders (without having all my facts, mind), I thought, "Hey, I SHOULD really look for cheesemaking communities online!". And hello, Google found you for me!
I'm faced with many, many obstacles..and here's where the dismay comes in...there are NO source of raw goats milk around here at the moment. The closest one is over an hour & a half drive away, a large Amish community. I've asked around & finally got the number of someone 1/2 hour away who will have kids coming *knock on wood* the 2nd week of April. Aaaaand, I really want to dip my toe in...so here are my questions...
1) Would I be able to use whole cow's milk, for now, to "just get the hang of it"? A sort of prelude-experimentation thing... (I hope I've not made anyone cringe at this clearly neophyte question)
and this segue's into the next question/s....
2) Here's what I have right now..rennet, chevre culture, starter culture
With these, what are my options? I'm not getting my hopes up that I would get an "oooh wow!" cheese, at this point, a mediocre one will do, just for a trial run.
I would really, really appreciate any help/information about this!
Thanks in advance & hope you guys have a lovely day!
Steff
Welcome Steff, I've only used store bought past & homgenized whole cow's milk. Works great for Feta but you have to add some Lipase.
What is your "starter culture" meso or thermo? Also where did you get/what is your chevre starter culture made of?
On our website there is a Wiki: Feta Recipe (https://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-feta-cheese-making-recipe/) and some other articles such as making brine for ripening cheese in like Feta that should be useful, just search on Feta. Also, there is a whole Forum Board on Brine Ripened cheese making which should give you tonnes of ideas.
There's also lots of threads on Chevre making in the FRESH LACTIC ACID COAGULATED - Normally Whey Removed Board.
PS: With what you have you could easily make some Light Cream Cheese, also called American Neufchatel here if you are in US.
Hi,
I am also a newbie (I have been making cheese for a year and 4 months). Know exactly how you feel about the excitement, the literature and recipe search... the HUNGER for advice!!! Because I still feel the same way!!
Strangely, my goat cheeses turned nearly always better than my cow cheeses. I buy my goat milk in Whole Foods. Isnºt cheap, but is safe. And I also do not have goat farms nearby. Also I have been highly recommended not to get into ´raw milk world´until a bit more experienced. The goat cheeses I made with Whole Foods milk turned out very flavorful. This is my advice if is good for you.
Regarding cow milk, same thing: store bought at the moment. And I have got pretty edible Cheddar, haha. Now I am aging a Tomme, Cammembert, Gouda and a White Stilton.
Never made any Feta, but lots! of Ricotta.
;D
Hi Steff,
The chevre culture should be mesophilic, of course. It is correct to define cultures as mesophilic (warm loving) and thermophilic (heat loving). I'd go back to your source of the cultures and see what cheeses they are recommended for. Yes, cows milk is definitely ok to dabble with, but you'll find that folks typically don't recommend ultra pasteurized or homogenized milk as it has really destroyed the calcium in the milk and you may get poor curd formation even if you add NaCl back to it.
I only work with raw goats milk for my homemade cheese because I work at a goat dairy (soon to be moving and working at a cow dairy). We make cheese at the dairy from both pasteurized and raw milk. Raw milk is not much to fear if it's kept clean imho. But you need to be sure how the goats and milk are being handled.
There are many detailed recipes on this site and incredibly knowledgeable people. Be sure to use the search function as a lot of your questions have probably already been answered. But don't hesitate to ask, as questions rarely go unanswered.
Welcome,
Brian
Thank you so much! I'm a bit search engine-impaired, but, I'm really good at following links. I got my culture in a kit for beginner cheese makers (at this point, cheese enthusiast would be more appropriate, I think) & it does make feta, apart from a few other cheeses (and also mold/containers included). In transit to me is also another kit to make other cheeses. Sigh. I know, overenthusiastic!!
I found out the hard way about ultra pasteurized goat's milk a few days ago, it just..didn't do anything I wanted it to (or thought it was supposed to do), except make yogurt. And my hubby got cultured kefir the other day cos "it had a picture of a goat on the front", that I actually made into butter, which I had done a few times before...but nary a pasteurized goat milk in stores around here, only the UP kind. Boo. It will be a loooong wait until end of April, so I may have to just go ahead & visit the Amish farms!
I'm not really that paranoid about raw goat's milk, Brian, to be honest. The one I know of sell their cheeses, soaps, etc at a friend's wine store & the other helps out with the Ag kids, so they're ok, I'm sure. I lived in Asia when I was younger (we were stationed there) & we raised goats & always drank their milk & I seem to have come off that unscathed. :) I just wish I paid more attention when they made cheese!
I have a feeling I will be spending many hours in the forums, reading up on anything. There seems to be a wealth of information here! Even the other, more "advanced" cheeses are a lot of fun to read!
Thank you, John, for your wiki/feta link...it seems like it's different from another feta "how to" I found here, too. I'm currently following this...
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,57.msg117.html#msg117 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,57.msg117.html#msg117)
My pot is sitting right now, patiently waiting. ;D I rather like the no-fussness of it..compared to some others I've seen online. I'm keeping my fingers & toes crossed, of course.
Mersunwea, I hope to make ricotta soon, too. I knooow, too much on my plate, so to speak...but it would be nice to make my next lasagne entirely from scratch! (I make my own sauce from my garden tomatoes & a friend makes homemade noodles)
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions...and for being patient in what are surely redundant ones here!!
My feta success!
cheeses (http://www.flickr.com/photos/steffiweffy/5493272808/#)
I added basil to one (I had small cup-sized molds) & pepper flakes & seeds in one. The latter didn't turn out too great ::) The area around the seeds look like they "bled" out, otherwise, the taste was pretty good, if a tad too hot/spicy. I didn't brine them, though next time I will. They're a little on the soft side, I like my feta a tad crumblier & firmer. Any suggestions on how to achieve that?
I also made ricotta from the whey...it took forever, it seemed! And of course, I expected a little yield, so I was prepared for the work vs yield so wasn't as disappointed as my kids were ("All that work for that tiny bowl?"). I did add 1/2 cup of milk to the whey, though, but next time will try doing it with straight up whey only.
Ricotta 1:
P1060502 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/steffiweffy/5493282654/#)
Ricotta 2:
P1060507 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/steffiweffy/5493283440/#)
My hubby is making me a press this weekend. I've found a couple online that we're mulling over. What are your preferences between the Dutch-type & the other one (spring-wingnut tightening)? He's favoring the Dutch type as he doesn't want to fiddle around with calibrating for the spring weight/pressure.
Anyways, thanks for looking..and thanks in advance again for answering my questions!
Have a lovely day!
How long did you leave your feta to sit out at room temperature before brining? I leave mine out for two days. This will help you achieve that dry crumbliness. I usually just make ricotta from whole milk, but others have suggested letting the whey stand over night, the acidity builds in the whey helping to precipitate the protein out of the whey.
Oh, and Dutch presses are the way to go. Much more accurate and effective. The spring loaded ones need continual manipulation to keep the pressing weight the same when the cheese shrinks. The Dutch press maintains the same constant pressure giving consistent results. Search on Dutch press for tons of pictures and info.
Hi, Brian!
I only left the feta in the brine for a day, that probably explains it then. We were a bit too eager to taste it. I'm making more tomorrow & I will definitely keep it longer...say, 3 days would be enough to achieve the crumbliness?
We are making our first press today, in the middle of it, taking a wee break to make dinner right now. It will be a bit of the simple one, with the chopping board as base, rods & wingnuts on corners, etc. I'm trying to talk my hubby into making me a Dutch press, though. I told him it doesn't have to be terribly complicated, big or fancy-I'm only planning to make about 2 gals of milk at a time for now, until I've gotten the hang of it & more confident about sharing them-I've got my eye on another member's presses, smolt I believe his username is. Of course, my hubby thinks he CAN make a good one....later. ^-^
KooKoo, Sorry, I don't know your name. I mean for you to leave the cheese sit for 2 days before even putting it in the brine. Check this link and you'll see what I mean.
http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/feta.html (http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/feta.html)
Hi, Brian!
My name is Stephanie...Steff is fine, no one's called me Stephanie since Sister Catherine in 6th grade. ^-^ I do let it sit out for a couple of days, hanging out to dry some more, before I brined it. I think this time, though, I will press it, too.
Thanks for patiently answering my questions! I know they have probably been asked by other newbies before me. I am trying to do a specific search for my questions in the boards, but there are soooo many same "key" words, I'm a bit overwhelmed. I need to set aside a free day of just reading through, especially the newbie-specific topics, instead of just sneaking in some reading time between work & chores. Sigh. Someday, I'll have that free time, I'm sure. lol Meanwhile, I'm relying on helpful people like you for virtual hand-holding. Thanks again!
Welcome to the forum, Steff. Good to hear your feta foray turned out favorably.
I would second the vote for a Dutch press. There is a lot on information on the forum about them and they don't have to be complicated or expensive.
I would recommend you attach your photos to your thread when you post rather than have them on Flickr. That way people will be able to see them directly without clicking on a link and, if something happens out there in FlickrLand and your photos get trashed, your photos will still be here attached to your thread. Check the Wiki for how to attach photos here (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,51.msg111.html#msg111).
Quote from: smilingcalico on February 18, 2011, 03:46:09 AM
you may get poor curd formation even if you add NaCl back to it.
I think you meant CACL2.
-Boofer-
LOL, thanks Boofer, I did! I must have been in a salty mood that day.
Thank you, Boofer. I'll edit my photos if it will still let me. And I'm making more feta today, too..my first full day off in a week, I need something to relax me (cooking & baking always does that!)...I'm warming up for my parmesan-making tomorrow. Why am I so nervous about it? Sheesh.
Wow, you're jumping from feta to parm? Nothing wrong with it, it's just a leap to go from a cheese that is eaten fairly fresh to one that has to age ten months. Just to warn you, I still haven't been able to cut into the first one I made. It will be three years old at the end of June. It is well wrapped and I will someday take Wayne's advice and sterilize a hacksaw to see if there is anything worthy in the middle of it.
I didn't know much about managing rinds and humidity levels at that point in time, obviously!
Good luck and let us know how the parm making goes.
Hi, Karen!
That's pretty much what my hubby said, too, "Don't you want to try the other soft cheeses first?" I figured, while I have the parmesan aging, I will try other ones, too. I will say that I'm absolutely terrified to do it! I am, but I'm willing to try-I love parmesan & Romano...we have an area in the basement set up as the "cave"..have been checking the temp & humidity daily-a few times a day-and it seems to be the perfect spot. It was the old canning cellar for the previous owners, we've opened it up & cleaned it before, as it's where I store vintage fabrics I collect-costume velvets, silks, etc (I will have to find a new home for them now). I've actually been trying to talk myself out of it..but, there's not really any other "beginner's" cheese I like, so the thought of making them isn't appealing at all! I don't eat cottage cheese, I've got paneer down pat, as I've been making it for years. So, for me, I don't see any other avenue. I'm actually still mulling it over, as I didn't make it this weekend as planned. I've chickened out. LOL
Anyway...I've got my feta hanging for a couple of days now..and this is something new, I didn't see from my previous feta-making...the sides are kinda turning yellowish/dry (?). It doesn't smell repulsive, smells about the same as expected, should I go ahead & brine it now & not wait until tonight (for the full 24-hour hanging)?
Here's how it looks. (Thanks Boofer for the pic link tip!) And I'm a bit worried about that little crack on the side, too. Granted, I will be cutting it up...it's not something I should be worried about...right? TIA for the help!
The yellow from what I can tell just seems like the cheese is drying out. I'm not sure what will happen once you brine it. You might consider just cutting it off. You could even cut it off and brine it separately so you can see what happens.
Yeah, I figured it's a wee on the dry side. I caved, though, and took a bite..it tastes good unsalted right now. We've already gone through a quarter of it ::) I made moussaka today & was soooo happy the feta stayed crumbly & didn't get all gooey & melty. I was worried about that. I've not cooked my homemade feta yet, just have been eating it on pita & adding to Greek-style salad.
I would wait with the Parmesan. I know you want to start early because it's a year long project (at least!) but trust me, what you will learn over the next 6 months about cheese, moisture, acidity and aging (not to mention the better techniques and equipment you'll have by then). It will cause you to look back at that hunk of cheese which still needs many more months of care for and say to yourself "Hmmm.... Probably a waste of time; I doubt this one will be very good".
My advice: practice first on some other semi hard and hard cheese that you can check and taste within the next 45-60 days. Tomme is a generic, reliable, versatile and liberal cheese that can so it for you. You can also try Colby or Jack or even a farmhouse cheddar (the latter needs more than 60 days though). While it ages, continue working on soft fresh and surface ripened cheese in short 14-21 day cycles.
Oh poo! Iratherfly, VERY, very good advice. And I definitely am backtracking now with the semi-hard as well as hard that don't age as loooong. That said, against ALL cautionary inner-voice yelling at me (really loudly) in my head, my obsessive-impulsive >:( self warred & let curiosity get the best of me & I DID make the parm. I have to say, though, right about half-way toward the end'ish of it, I was really regretting it. I have since made a big note for me on the fridge, "Resist!" (in all caps) & explained to everyone at home (hubby & kids) what it meant. They thought I was talking about food in general. Ha. For me now, this round block of drying/hopefully-aging-toward-something-good parmesan is a testament to my foolishness & general idiocy. Sigh.
Like I said, I am backtracking & doing a lot of reading-no cheesemaking this week at all (my inner voice sternly admonished myself), just lots of reading & even more research.
Thank you all of you for your inspiration!!
You sound a lot like me, in all honesty. For aged cheese, I started out with cheddar - not very successfully, I must say, only producing one that had truly good flavor and it was dryish and crumbly to boot. I moved on to Colby, which turned out okay, but I preferred the fresh curds to the finished cheese. Some of the aged ones turned out good, but not with the creamy texture I really wanted in my cheese.
This year, I've been much more pleased with aged cheesemaking. I'm three years into it now and teach cheesemaking classes - Am I crazy or what?! I started out with Havarti, my first venture into using a ripening container. Then Sailor got me turned on to Lancashire, which is going to become a staple cheese in this house. My first one is only six weeks old right now. We tried it at 4 weeks and enjoyed the flavor. Just cut into another quarter yesterday and are very, very happy with how much the flavor has developed in just another 12 days. See Learning Lancashire (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6499.0.html) and Lancashire Recipe (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6505.0.html) for more information.
Just don't get discouraged. This is such a great hobby (minor career for me now, too) but it does take patience. Everyone takes their own route to success. Maybe someday we'll get together and open our first parms. Hey, mine will be three years old in August!
I second, the notion of "sounding alot like me," kookookachoo. I can tell you that I'm an obsessive freak (you will see me on board here, most nights, anywhere between 2-4 a.m., local time), to an assured fault. And I tap some truly gifted people here, as much as they'll put up with, for everything they've got. It's been an enjoyable ride, in a short couple of months.
That said, at the end of the day, I hope we're all doing this, ultimately, from a sense of pleasure; for ourselves in the make, and in the eating, and for others, with whom we share our efforts. So at the end of the day, if we depend on more experienced others, it's our own sense of things that has to guide the show.
I personally applaud both your "obsessiveness," and your ultimate desire to make parm, a cheese you love. Take what I say with a grain of salt (I really am new), but I don't think there's ever a make to truly regret - it's all learning, if painful, at times, to one's perfectionist sensibilities. A platitude, but still a truthful one, I think.
Best of luck.
Paul
kookookachoo, I hear you and I agree with Paul and Karen too. We've ALL had bad batches and wasted energy and milk. There has never been a more appropriate time than cheesemaking to remind people not to cry over spilled milk :)
Even with a bad Parmesan experience, you still learned something and practiced your technique and that's priceless.
Thank you, guys! I have to say, "regretting" making the parm would be a really strong. I was a bit...uncomfortable...with myself, that I was so quick to jump in against all logic & caution. Having read your posts, though, I've reassured myself that I'm not alone in this. I did learn a lot of things: I enjoy making cheese (it's almost close to the love stage, really), I will be learning new heights of patience, and ask plenty of questions! :P
Karen, thank you for the link, sounds like something we would enjoy, plus the added bonus of not waiting too long to reward (hopefully) our efforts (mostly mine, but my hubby DID make the press!). I read about not waiting overnight to drain! Would it be ok to print the recipe you amended?
Paul, I think I've stayed up past my bedtime so many nights these past couple of weeks than I have in a long time. It's mostly the only time I get to have peace & quiet to concentrate on reading-process the information I've read & take down notes!
I'm off to do a LOT of reading & looking for cheese recipes for Sunday (I don't think I can wait longer to make again).
Iratherfly (sorry, I didn't catch your name), I think I maybe sobbed a little bit. :P
There are lots of semi-hard cheeses you can make that will mature well before a parm would. Then you really would be able to fine-tune your technique and equipment...and derive that much more satisfaction and confidence. I'm on my 24th cheese in not quite two and a half years and I have yet to make a parmigiano. Hey, but it's on my to-do list! ;)
-Boofer-
I'm convinced. I've got a list of cheeses I'm going to make "soon". Based on the advice of many to novices like me, seems like tomme & gouda are the way to go. I'm also partial to the taste of cotswald, asiago, romano, colby & jack. I'm going to look right now for the aging time of some of the cheeses in my list. I'm sure I'm not alone (it may even be nightmare-producing situations) in thinking, "Wonder how this tastes?" and I've only really made a couple of other-than-soft-and-fresh cheeses. I honestly applaud everyone for not caving in to temptation! ;D
That being said, the process for tomme & gouda are a bit daunting!! I'm extremely nervous but my hubby is especially enthusiastic about aging the tomme in marc. :D He brews beer & makes wine. He's only made wine from grapes a couple of times, preferring other fruits (not from scratch, though), but he said he'll do it a couple of times this year for me.
I'm sure I'll be sending out an SOS (aka whining) here again this weekend! Hope everyone has a good evening!
Go ahead and print out the recipe. I wouldn't have put it out here if I didn't want to share it. Credit for the not waiting overnight to press goes entirely to Sailor - it was a major improvement in the process.
I'm out here in the middle of the night now and again,too. Tonight because I'm working third shift and all the laundry is done. Have to do something to stay awake!
I am new as well and am completely overtaken by how many different things of cheese everything there is!! SO much to learn and to know...a true cheese connoisseur is impressive.