Hi,
Ok, trying a caerphilly again. Adjusted my rennet amount from my last make, where I had a floc time of 7:30, and this time hit a floc of 14 min. I'm going with a 3x floc for cut time (42 minutes, whereas the recipe indicates 40 min, so that seems like I'm on target). This is my first make basing things on floc times, so I'm curious to see how things go. fingers crossed.
- Jeff
Ok, so I cut at the target time indicated by my floc time. I was worried what the curd would be like because I've always waited for a "clean break", and that seems to take much longer. However, I was pleased that the resulting curd seems pretty good. Whey is clear, and the curds haven't disintigrated.
- Jeff
Well, not too bad. My ability to do things like stack and flip, and mill, etc, is not great, so I tend to get off the time line at this phase. However, I was able to get the curds into the mold and I'm now "pressing in the pot" to see if I can get a better internal knit then I did last time. Last time my rind was good, nice and closed, etc, but internally there were a large number of mechanical holes. Want to see if things improve this time around.
Anyway, once I get a pressed cheese, I'll post a photo.
- Jeff
Ok, and now it's out of the press. The rind has sealed up pretty good, with just a few spots where there are white hairline indications that the curds didn't knit completely. I've used a different sized mold from the first one (this is smaller in diameter). Also, this mold is plastic while the other was just a stainless steel steamer pot. Finally, I increased the press weight for overnight, and this expelled more whey. The final weight out of the press is 1.306 kg. Not bad. The first one I made was abuot 1.5 kg, but that used a higher fat creamline milk, while this time the milk was a bit lower fat, and homogenised.
Anyway, I'm quite pleased with this one. The other is down to a 1/4 slice.
- Jeff
you have a good looking cheese there John, I think I am going to have to make a Caerphilly real soon. I am Glad to see that I am not the only one who uses chop sticks for drying racks.
Thanks pliezar,
Still need to work on my cheesecloth wrapping in the mold. Still getting fairly large creases in the cheese when it comes out. The chop sticks are great, though I'm going to pick up some plastic ones I think. The bamboo ones will probably end up retaining some sourness as whey will soak into them and they will be harder to clean properly. I've changed the make on this one a bit from the last time (i.e. used floc method this time, heavier press, etc). Last time I also brined it, but since I add 2.5 tbls of salt after milling, it probably doesn't require a brining as well. I'll build up the outer rind with a brine washing every couple days once it goes into the cave though.
The first one was good, though quite salty. It didn't get much of a chance to age (opened it at 3 weeks), but it was good. It's got a sour tange to it, but I hear that it changes quite a bit if you age it for a few months.
- Jeff
Quote from: JeffHamm on February 27, 2011, 07:23:27 PM
Still need to work on my cheesecloth wrapping in the mold. Still getting fairly large creases in the cheese when it comes out.
I hear you, most of my cheeses look like they are frowning. I just bought 4m of cheesecloth so I can have a better fit.
Quote from: JeffHamm on February 27, 2011, 07:23:27 PMThe first one was good, though quite salty. It didn't get much of a chance to age (opened it at 3 weeks), but it was good. It's got a sour tange to it, but I hear that it changes quite a bit if you age it for a few months.
You would have more patience than me, I am still having a trouble not cracking open my Gouda after 3 weeks. I will have to bear that in mind, you should have a different taste with adding the salt in milling.
Yah, I make this one to help keep me patient! In my cave I've got a gouda, which I want to age 9 months. A Sage Wenslydale, which I want to age 3 months, and a Manchego, which is targeting 4 moths. In order to prevent me from going into a feeding frenzy, I make Caerphilly because I can open it any time after 3 weeks and have a good tasting cheese.
With the first one I salted during milling and then brined it as well. That was probably overdoing it, so this should be slightly less salty. I tried to keep the curds warm after milling (pressed in the pot), but the initial press is quite light on this (5 kg, or about 11 lbs), so it was quite "loose" looking until after the over night press.
If you're looking for a recipe, I think I posted the one I follow in the thread about my first make.
- Jeff
How much did you adjust the rennet? (If you said, I missed it.)
First time I made it I used 0.8 ml of rennet, but I hadn't tried the floc point. When I made a Manchego, I used 0.9 ml, and found the floc at about 7:30, which is too short. So, this time I just used 0.6 ml, and that's got me in the 12-15 minute zone.
- Jeff
Thanks. I'm starting a small (1 gal.) batch now, with no expectations.
My ggrandfather was from Wales... just seemed like a thing to try.
I'm sure it will go well. I'm using a vegetarian/kosher/halal rennett, which suggests 0.7 ml for 10 L. I was using a bit more in other makes as I could never seem to get what I thought a clean break should be. I thought I had to use a bit more for Homogenised and Pasturised milk, etc. Anyway, use whatever amount of rennet works in your situation (or just go by what's on the package if you're just starting out and haven't gathered any of your own data yet).
This isn't too complicated a cheese. When it's young, it is salty and a bit sour. Apparently it mellows out around 3 or 4 months. I'm not sure I'll get one to last that long just yet though. :)
I would be really interested in seeing how yours turns out.
- Jeff
Well, it's already in the mold, 2nd 10 minute press. I have photos but need to read up on how to post them.
Everything worked nicely on the make, best curd I've cut so far. However, I'm worried about how salty it tastes right now.
Hi,
Nice. It is a salty cheese. The Welsh miners' wives made this for them and they would take it down into the mines. The salt was to help replace what they lost from sweating. When young (3 weeks), it will retain a sourness, which apparently will mellow as it ages. The rind is just a natural rind, built up from salt washes (again, increasing the saltiness!). I think it's normally a bit dry and crumbly too, though my first one wasn't crumbly - firm but dry.
Anyway, to post photos, click the "Additional options" tag just below where you write your post. Use the browse button (in the Attach option) and select the photo image you want to attach to the message.
- Jeff
Okay, here's my small, first attempt... This morning when I took it out of the press, it weighed 664g.
Sorry, one of the photos is out of order.
That looks great! Your knit is much better than mine by the looks of it. As mine is air drying, I see there's a couple spots where the outer seal is not quite solid (mold caves). Anyway, if you eat this one young, I found that it was best in thin slices (a few millimeters thick). Enjoy and well done.
- Jeff
After seeing both your cheeses, I know what my son and I are doing this weekend.
Good looking cheese darius!
Thanks, Jeff and pliezar. I'll be pleased if it just tastes okay in a few weeks. That's only my 3rd cheese if you don't count a fromage blanc.
I'm sure the knit was accidental; I cut the curds too soon after floc because I'm a dumb noobie and forgot to add in the time factor after floc.
Hi Darius,
I've only been making cheese for a few months now. This one is only my 5th pressed cheese. I've also made camembert a few times, and mozerella twice, and a large curd cottage cheese. Like you, my first caerphilly knitted beautifully, this one is pretty good, but not perfectly sealed. Have to get some warm water and a knife to smooth over the one or two potential mold caves.
When you say "forgot to add the time facter after floc", do you mean you cut it at the floculation point? Or do you mean you got a floculation point of 10, and then used 3x (30 minutes) and cut 30 minutes after adding the rennet (which would be correct; you don't add the 30 minutes after floculation, but after adding the rennet; I use a stop watch feature on my digital watch for this point, rather than calculation time on the clock).
Anyway, it looks like you got a good curd, and it knit well. If you cut early (at floc), then from what I understand, this will mean the final cheese will be quite dry. That might be a good thing with this cheese. If you get a very hard, dry chreese, this might be very good grated over pasta, etc.
pliezar, hope you post your make as well.
- Jeff
Jeff, I did get a floculation point @10 minutes and then cut. It wasn't until later I remembered the Time X Factor and by then it was too late. Using a floc. point is new to me; I'd been doing a clean break. I like this method much better! If the final cheese is dry, that's okay. I learn better by my errors sometimes!
Hi Darius,
This is my first use of the floc method too. I also prefer it over the clean break, as "clean break" is a bit subjective : and I always keep thinking "I'm sure it could be a bit cleaner"! :) I took a guess at a 3x for this. If this one is not quite dry and crumbly, I might go with 2.5x next time.
I've heard the Welsh version would be dusted with flour at some point (it was thought to help reduce contamination of the cheese when they went down into the mine; I guess they could brush off the dirty flour and it would seem cleaner?) I've not done that, but I would think it would be something that was done after the rind was fully formed (and after you've stopped intenting to brine wash it). I'll probably not do that with this one, though.
- Jeff
P.S. I keep meaning to ask. What is the diameter of your cheese? I want to compare psi between our makes; what weight did you use?
LOL, My one and only mold is 4.5" in diameter.
Since I only have a rudimentary press using direct weights, I just did the weight amounts the recipe suggested. I realize that's not PSI weights, and I still haven't figured out if all recipes are in PSI for weights even though they don't say so. Makes it hard for a beginner.
Most recipies just give weights, but don't tell you the size of mold they are working on so PSI is just a guess. If you used a 4.5 inch mold, with 7.5kg of weight, then that would give you around 1 PSI. I think, even with my increase to 15kg for the over night press, my PSI would be about 0.8 or so (my mold is 18cm, or about 7 inches, and also just has me stacking weights on top). However, the first one I made was in a bigger mold, and it knitted fine, so who knows? ha!
- Jeff
Hey, Jeff... I just saw in your 'make notes' that you brined this cheese. (I didn't see that in the recipe itself.) Why brine, and did you brine both makes?
Not to answer for John, oops sorry Jeff
I have found several different recipes for Caerphilly, some call for salt to be added into the curd and others say brine. On the Youtube video for Greening of Gavin he rubbed salt on the outside of the cheese during pressing.
It is interesting to see the different ways this cheese is produced.
Thanks, pliezar. I did rub mine with salt, top and bottom, every time I flipped it, and when I set it out to dry.
Hi Darius,
I had found a few recipies for this, and was combining them. The majority of it is from the Greening of Gavin website. I noticed some others brined rather than salted the curds. The first time, I wasn't thinking, and did both! The 2nd time, I omitted the brine.
- Jeff
Ahh... Thanks Jeff. I feel better about it now. It sure has lost weight. About 10% in the 1st 24 hours (66g) and about another 20g so far today. It's still getting a little moist on the underside, which dries slowly after being flipped. Probably by tomorrow it will go in my cave.
Hi Darius,
Yah, mine went from 1.5kg to 1 kg over 3 weeks. It will expell a lot of moisture, and does take quite a bit of time to air dry (I expect 3-5 days, but I've done a larger make). I flipped mine twice a day (morning and evening). Mine is still air drying and still quite damp on the bottom when I flip it. I put mine on a series of chopsticks, as this allows good air circulation (better than the sushi mats I think).
- Jeff
P.S. No worries pliezar! I have a brother John, so perhaps you just confused us! :)
I see the blog at New England Cheesemaking Supply features Caerphilly today, and Gavin's recipe and photos of the make. I guess it's soon to be the new "hot" cheese!
https://cheesemakinghelp.blogspot.com/2011/03/caerphilly-almost-instant-gratification.html (https://cheesemakinghelp.blogspot.com/2011/03/caerphilly-almost-instant-gratification.html)
Very neat! I notice pliezar is doing a make as we "speak" too!
- Jeff
Well, I'm starting another one too! I think I'll probably stick to 1 gallon batches because it's just me to eat it. I only have one mold for now and I'm not sure all the curds from a 2 gallon batch will fit.
Although at some point I need to make a 2 gallon batch just to see the difference.
Hi Darius,
With two of them, you'll be able to compare the difference between a 0x floc and 2.5x or 3.0x, whatever you go for. If I understand things correctly, the first one should end up much drier than this next make, with 2.5 drier than 3.0. Will be an interesting experiment to see what happens.
I've double checked my mold, it's 6.25" across, and 6.25" height (inside dimentions). It tapers a wee bit, so the bottom is slightly smaller, but this hasn't been a problem for flipping, and the follower goes nearly to the bottom before it hangs up. Anyway, this easily holds a 10 L batch, which is about 2.6 gallons. If you get some wax, then after you cut into a larger cheese, you can wax the other half and age it longer.
- Jeff
Hi,
Ok, today we cut this cheese. This one has turned out much less salty and sour than the first one. Still has lots of mechanical openings, but the taste is very nice. I suspect the brining of the first make, and the extra rind washes I gave it, increased the salt levels quite a bit. This has the same flavour characteristics, but less in your face. And, it has a much more cheesey taste to it. I think using the floc method may have helped too as the previous tang may have been due to over acidification?
Anyway, it's a hit. I suspect this one would be very nice if aged to 3 or 4 months, but I don't think it will make it. :)
- Jeff
Looks lovely, Jeff!
I'm making a 2 gallon batch right now, tweaking the procedure, and adding some lemongrass. Somehow my scale is malfunctioning, so I just added 2 Tbs. salt because I couldn't weigh the salt. :(
Jeff,
Looks good, I am glad this one worked out for you. I have to wait another week or so until mine is ready :'(. I know you don't have a vacuum sealer, but are you going to let this one age longer? (wax it maybe?)
Hi darius,
I just used 2 tbls of salt in this one, so you should be fine.
Hi pliezar,
I might save a 1/4 wedge to age it a bit (waxed). Not sure though. I sort of use this as a cheese I can eat and share right away, while others age longer. My father in law quite liked the first make, so I expect he'll want some of this one too! I'm making a "Butterkase" right now actually, and it's just about to go into the mold. That's another one that should be ready fairly quickly (3 or 4 weeks).
- Jeff
P.S. Oh yah, when I weighed this it was now at 1.000 kg, so it lost 306 grams over the 3 weeks. 1 kg / 10 L is what I've heard is what to expect, so that's good.
Darius,
Do I recall correctly that you make your own salami? If so, I think you'll find that caerphilly will go nicely with it, and peperonies too.
- Jeff
Jeff, Yes I am learning charcuterie, but haven't made any dry-cured salami yet. I still need some bacterial cultures for it, but I bought some cheese stuff this month instead!
The two hobbies will go nicely together. I think caerphilly would go well with salami, or even pastromi (which I've not seen in New Zealand, but used to get back home in Nova Scotia easily enough). Anyway, looking forward to see how all of these turn out.
- Jeff
Hi!
I've got my first Caerphilly in the cave now, too. Sitting next to my Lancashire. They honestly (physically) look the same, but the Lancashire has a bit of a "bite" to the smell of it. Nothing unpleasant, just really tells you it's a wheel of cheese. I was going to make Tomme, as everyone seems to be unanimous in their advise that it's a way better way for me to go as a newbie. I'm a bit scared, for some reason, though...so I gave myself an out, since my surname is Welsh (Durham), what a perfect excuse for me to make a Welsh cheese! ;D
I'm a bit concerned, though, as when I sliced & stacked, the slices were already pretty well knit & had the texture & consistency of tofu (for lack of a better comparison). I thought they would be a bit softer & a tad more "mushy". Do you remember if this was different than yours, Darius? And I didn't salt when milling, either, just relied on the brine. I did press in the whey, though (left in a cheese cloth), mainly because my kitchen has been a tad cold since I shut off the vent that opens up there. I had a couple of cheeses drying, prior to being taken down to the cellar & didn't want the everyday baking/cooking to make the kitchen even warmer.
Anyway, this is the second time I've used the flocc method, when in the past two other cheeses made, I've relied strictly on the time the recipe said. I will be hard pressed (puns!) to wait til the 3 month mark. We're actually having a little debate here at home. I want to wait, but the hubby wants to open at one month. Sigh. It may have to come down to the arm-wrestle winner (and I cheat). :P
That sounds about like my curds, but they pressed fine. I cut my first one (just 1 gallon) at 3 weeks to taste, vac-packed it back up in 3 separate pieces so I can try each one at intervals... but probably not as long as 3 months. I do have 2 more in the aging box.
I should have pressed in the whey, but one step at a time.
Hi kookookachoo,
the curds shouldn't be mushy when you're stacking and milling. Tofu, or cooked chicken breast, is about the texture it should be. Caephilly can be eaten at 3 weeks and it's quite nice. I've been told it improves up to 3 months, when the flavour becomes more mild, however I've not aged one that long myself. I've only made it twice, and both times it was a success as a young cheese. I will probably age one longer for comparison.
Anyway, welcome to the caerphilly club! :)
- Jeff
Hi!
Whew! I was a bit worried there for a sec, thinking of what the cheese will become when opened. I'm sure some version of cheese, of course, but I did want that Caerphilly taste & would be disappointed if it didn't come within a mile of it.
To be honest, I'm hoping for the best in all my cheeses, but I'm really not expecting much. I would be delighted if they all turn out, but I'm setting my expectation threshold at very low. I've never had any problems with feta, I could probably do them with my eyes closed (ha! I probably just jinxed myself & end up getting burned or something). Now, ricotta, I've dorked up a couple where they had a bitter tang to them, don't know why. I, idiotically, made parm a month ago, thinking to myself it didn't look too hard (reading the steps, doing them, etc), only belatedly realizing I wouldn't even find out if it's halfway a decent cheese or not since I can't taste it for months & months yet! Sooo, I've been back-tracking & doing a "cheese-a-long" with this topic, the Lancashire one..and soon, tomme. I've had a few "old cheeses" tell me I should "start" with tomme, before doing the hard cheeses. It's in my to-do list for tomorrow & all the while, I'll be keeping my fingers & toes crossed!
Steff
Hi Steff,
I've recently been using Sailor's "pressing in the pot" suggestion. Basically, after filling the mold with the curds, put the mold in a pot and put the pot in a sink of hot water. The hot water bath warms up the pot, keeping the curds warm. I use the same pot I used to make the cheese, since I've drained the whey into a different one. And, I keep that pot in the warm sink while filling the mold (the milled curds are in it, so it keeps the curds warm as well as keeping the pot warm. Then, do the first press with the mold in the pot that is sitting in the hot water. Cover the pot, and you should have a nice warm environment which aids the knitting of the curds. I've done this for a few cheeses now and it really seems to help.
I think caerphilly is a fairly forgiving cheese. I over salted the first make, and it was still good, and darius over salted his first make and cut it early, and his has turned out good too. Keep an eye on it and it should turn out just fine. Regardless, don't forget to post your tasting notes when you try it!
- Jeff
Hi, Jeff!
And you do the same, too. I'm taking more notes on this, too. I think I may have boo-boo'd the first one. I didn't press it in the pot. Pooh! I don't have a mold, so when I drain in my colander, I just folded the cheese cloth around it, covered the pot, forgot to put any weight on top of it!! I just looked over my notes..and sure 'nuff, that's what I did. Crud. Now I really feel like making #2 Caerphilly, just to make up for dorking the first one up!
Hey, Jeff... look at my photo under my name... I'm female, despite the name! A bit long in the tooth to be sure, but female nonetheless. :)
Steff, I made a very adequate mold for caerphilly from 2 one-gallon berry buckets. There is a slight taper, but not much. I drilled holes in one, and removed the burrs with a single-edge razor blade. The second one fits nicely into the first one, and I usually fill it about 3/4 full with water, which is about 6 pounds, then more weights on top of that...
The lighting in photo with weights on top is poor, but you get the idea.
LOL, sorry darius, I just saw the name and didn't look any further.
I really like the mold you made. I'll have to have a search around for some similar buckets. The one inside the other would help prevent developing a sloped top.
Oh and Steff,
my 2nd caerphilly has turned out very nice. It has a slightly salty flavour, with a bit of a sour tang to it (because it's young I think), but also a nice mild cheese flavour as well. It's smooth, not overly dry but not moist and creamy either, just a nice middle ground. It goes well on crackers with olives and such, and I think would be nice with salamies and pastromi, etc. Basically, I really like it and will certainly be making more of it.
- Jeff
That's a good one! I'm trying to wheedle my hubby into making me a couple of molds that are smaller than my stock pots (one is 3.75 gallon is what I mostly use for my cheeses). Maybe if I show him this photo he'll relent! ;D
Jeff, I just gave you a cheese... and NOT for the apology, but for your encouragement and support!
Thanks for the cheese! I think this is a great board as there are so many people here at different levels of experience. I'm fairly new to cheesemaking (having only made about 10 or so cheeses) myself, and I'm learning a lot from everyone. I like how you're experimenting with the herbs and such, and how we're all comparing notes on how these cheeses are turning out. It increases the fun of it all by sharing our successes and our not so successful results! :)
- Jeff