In thinking of a better means to get a regular cut in my larger batches (in a stockpot, as opposed to iratherfly's design, square turkey-roaster vat), I am intrigued by the "Swiss Harp", as traditionally used (and as designed here, beautifully, by Wayne (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1878.msg13992.html), among others (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,3748.msg30206.html#msg30206)). I originally envisioned a very orderly cutting method - neat little cubes, necessitating among other things, a second harp with horizontal wiring.
The more videos I see of alpage makers, the more it sure seems like a haphazard process (though I'm certain it proceeds by careful monitoring of the curd texture, consistency). Here, for instance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgp2-r80Tds#); anything but nice little cross-hatching (watch 1:40-2:09; esp. around the 2:05 mark), in this "swiss cheese" make. Frankly, in my opinion, he's just stirring the heck out of the curd, as the cooking progresses. He later uses a spino.
Anyway, this was unknown to me. It seems many draw the harp through the curd and keep working it, to essentially just cut the curd up into kernel-size pieces. Not what I expected.
Quotehe's just stirring the heck out of the curd
Not so. If you look closely, the technique is to first do the vertical cuts, and then take a curd scoop and bring the curds from the bottom to the top. He flicks the wrist, creating an eddy of sorts, forcing the bottom curds to the top, and then cuts again. It is a little random, not the perfect cubes you get from using vertical and horizontal harps, but it works pretty well as a technique. The spino is used to prevent the curds from matting. By the time the spino is used, those curds have firmed up enough that they won't be cut. And then there's a moisture test, and curd rest so it mats.
I often will use a whisk and my technique is somewhat similar. I will cut into large pieces, then bring the curds from the bottom to the top, and then cut again.
I'm talking not just about the "intensive" period, but even the initial, pretty vigorous scooping (around 1:37) and initial vertical cuts (1:47), which surprised me. Just wasn't accustomed to seeing anything other than an attempt at straight, sculpted-lawn-like rows, and that, after leaving the curd morgue-still prior to cutting. I guess I thought the structure was too delicate to do anything like what I see in this video (and other videos like it).
I'm interested in your observation of his use of the curd scoop (1:50) - are you saying it's the scoop where he uses his "wrist flick" to draw from bottom to top (I see him only along the surface...are you suggesting something of a folding technique, to draw from below even though he's staying high), or is it the harp ( 1:56 - again, seems vigorous to me, but I've nothing to compare), where a subtle wrist action creates the eddy, and a bottom-top mixing?
Makes sense on the spino, thanks. I uh, attempted to use a whisk early on this last time, saw that it was only destroying curd, and stopped.
Quote from: linuxboyI often will use a whisk and my technique is somewhat similar. I will cut into large pieces, then bring the curds from the bottom to the top, and then cut again.
So - am I picturing this correctly: you're basically taking columns of curd, laying them on the surface horizontally, and by cutting again, you've essentially cubed them? And by repeating this process, you end up with some approximation of the smaller cubes? Are you using your whisk to cut, or, as you mention above, merely to stir the (somewhat hardened), cut curd?
I also see many descriptions talk of "rice kernels" for "swiss;" presume the rice kernels would be for alpine variants with a lower moisture content than beaufort, and a beaufort should try for a 1/4" as best as possible?
You can cut curd as soon as .8-1x floc, like you do for very hard cheeses like parms. Your yield will be much lower than with a higher floc multiplier cheese because solids are lost, but for good milk, you can certainly do it. That milk is skimmed of its cream and has a high PF ratio. Makes for a very strong curd. That scoop at 1:50 is pretty far in there, maybe 8 inches or so. If you drag that, it will force top curd down and bring the lower curd to the surface. But it's not critical for this cheese style. He's also checking to see what the curd looks like in the middle of the vat so he knows how much more to cut.
When using a whisk, good technique is to move slowly and turn the whisk. Gives you horizontal and vertical cuts.
Thanks, Pav, interesting.
Quote from: linuxboyYour yield will be much lower than with a higher floc multiplier cheese because solids are lost, but for good milk, you can certainly do it. That milk is skimmed of its cream and has a high PF ratio.
Something else I noticed was how white the liquid portion was, even when he was really stirring it up. My presumption has so far been that's always a bad thing - that you are losing a ton of milk solids to your whey, so, like a vorlauf in brewing, the clearer the whey the better. Sounds like the technique above marries the milk, as you describe it. Interesting. Do they then make serac, or something like it, esp. because of the rich, fresh whey?
Very often, yes. Serac, or sbrinz, depending where you are. It's not always bad to have cloudy whey, but often bad for commercial production. If you're losing solids, you're losing profit when making a single type of cheese. But, if you're recovering that to make serac, and then feeding whey back to the animals, that's a full circle system. Yet another reason why I'm such a small advocate of small-scale farmstead production. Very conducive to permaculture methods.
OK, thanks, makes perfect sense.