Hi,
I have a few cheeses which will be maturing over the next few months, so I thought I would try a
Romano as then I can age it for at least 6 months or more. I had a floc time of about 12:30, and used a 2.5x multiplier. Does that sound right? The recipe on the site indicates let it set for 45-90 minutes, and if floc time is supposed to target 10-15 minutes, that seems really long? I went with my 2.5, but I'm curious if it's because the make starts at a temperature a bit low for Thermo?
- Jeff
Will be shifting this into the mold shortly. I'm pleased with this, I think. I've been able to keep to the temperature targets. I don' t have a ph meter, but I've used the floc method and so far things seem to be "on time". The curds have reduced, and are quite small now, but it looks to be a good yield. Fingers crossed.
- Jeff
Ok, this is looking promising! I gave it the first 30 minute press with 5 kg, and when I flipped and redressed it, the knit was looking superb. The cheese felt very soft, and wet (like it was waterlogged), so I'm assuming there's still a lot of whey to get pressed out. Have got it under 12.5 kg for the next 3 hours now, then it's over night. Hmmm, the press schedule is for 12 hours, but that would be 3:30 am. I'm unlikely to be awake at that time. Might have to press until closer to 6 am, but that's pretty close on. Just need to get the brine ready today, as it's a work day tomorrow. Will post a photo once it's out of the brine.
- Jeff
Hi,
Ok, it's now had the 3 hour press, and I snapped a shot before it goes into the over night press. I have to work on my wrapping while pressing as I'm getting all sorts of ...um ... character? Anyway, it's looking good and the seal is great already. I'm planning on keeping this by oiling the rind. Will see how that goes.
- Jeff
Jeff-you made the correct decision. A flocc of 2-2.5 would be correct for that type of cheese.
Thanks zenith1. As the make progressed I figured all was good as the curds seemed to do what various recipies indicate should happen (i.e. shrink, etc), but it's nice to get some independent verification. I was just following the recipie by RC, but once I got started thought I would double check with the one here as she just indicated "wait until a clean break", and I wanted to see if the board one listed a floc time. It didn't, but I had a table from a post that seemed to indicate 2-2.5 (as you list). I went with the longer set, for a slight moister and faster aging cheese (if I understand things correctly) since I want to break into this in about 6-9 months, rather than wait over a year.
My rough calculations as to yield is just over 1.6 kg (going on 1cc = 1 g), but as I expect it to lose moisture over night, and to shink a bit, probably more in the 1.5 kg range.
- Jeff
Oh yah, I meant to ask. I understand that just before brining you poke the surface with a fork (multiple times). Is this just to allow the brine access to the intererior, to draw out more moisture? I've not seen this called for in any other cheese before, so I'm curious. I take it the holes are really just deep enough to break the outer knit and not inches deep?
- Jeff
Quote from: JeffHamm on March 06, 2011, 05:09:50 AM
Oh yah, I meant to ask. I understand that just before brining you poke the surface with a fork (multiple times). Is this just to allow the brine access to the intererior, to draw out more moisture? I've not seen this called for in any other cheese before, so I'm curious. I take it the holes are really just deep enough to break the outer knit and not inches deep?
- Jeff
Where did you read about poking the rind? You're going to corrupt that nice knit you've got to the rind? The brine should do just fine without the poking.
-Boofer-
Jeff- I have, I agree wit the Boof. I have never seen anything about poking holes in the rind of a grana type cheese. Like Boofer posted it is another opportunity for an unwanted critter to take up residence. Soaking in a brine is all that is needed to prepare a nice rind, firm up the wheel,add the required amount of salt to add the flavor and slow down the bacteria etc. No need to perforate the rind. I attached a document that has been previously been posted about flocculation multipliers in case you did not have the reference.
Hi Boof and zenith1,
I checked the recipe on the forum (found here). Check out step 16:
https://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-romano-cheese-making-recipe/ (https://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-romano-cheese-making-recipe/)
I must admit, it did feel a bit wrong to pierce such a great knit. But, I did (had to make the call before people had time to respond). Hopefully I didn't introduce any nasties. Hmmm, maybe someone who is more experienced with this make should give the forum's recipie a once over? Seems to me it might be less up to standard than some of the others (i.e. the long set time; and possibly this forking thing).
Oh, and thanks for the chart zenith1! The more info the better.
Anyway, it came out to weigh 1606g, which is what I had estimated. Now, as I'm thinking of a salt and oil routine for this one, is a 1.6 kg (3.5 lbs) wheel (about 3.25 inches high, 6 inch diameter) wheel too small to retain enough moisture? I know oiling and such works fine for large wheels, but I'm wondering if this is just too small for that and would people recommend I wax it after a month or so?
- jeff
P.S. Still need to work on the cheese wrapping. Imperfections still knitted good though. I used a bigger piece of cheesecloth than usual, so there was more of it left over. Must figure out how to avoid this.
Yeah, that's what the recipe says. Surprised me. I think I'll have to go to the judges for this call.
Opinions: linuxboy, Francois, or Sailor?
-Boofer-
Yay, Jeff. You are getting brave. :)
I've decided to stick with Caerphilly until I get it right.
Not sure if this applies, but I'd always see ads for grana padano in the cooking mags over the years, and noted the rind perforations:
(http://photos.hhoffman.co.uk/img/v3/p488355848-2.jpg)
(http://www.gourmetgirlmagazine.com/09/01/images/Grana%20Padano.jpg)
Now, my curiosity is piqued as well.
The designs seen on Italian Grano cheese are from matrix in the hoop itself. These cheeses are not pressed as we understand "pressing", they are more "bound" with a hoop that gets tightened with a shoe lace type of setup on the side of the hoop.
This works due to the 100 Lb weight of each individual cheese.
Here is a pretty good You tube for an idea
Making Parmigiano Reggiano Part 4 of 9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=363IcJIybYQ#)
Quote from: coffee joe on March 06, 2011, 10:10:11 PM
The designs seen on Italian Grano cheese are from matrix in the hoop itself. These cheeses are not pressed as we understand "pressing", they are more "bound" with a hoop that gets tightened with a shoe lace type of setup on the side of the hoop.
This works due to the 100 Lb weight of each individual cheese.
Here is a pretty good You tube for an idea
Making Parmigiano Reggiano Part 4 of 9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=363IcJIybYQ#)
Interesting, I didn't know; much like an abondance, etc. Do you know if the holes serve a functional, and not merely a decorative purpose (per Jeff's recipe)?
It is actually a branding so that everyone knows it is from Parma or whatever. Each region has its DOP. The large brand is literally firebranded on after it passes inspection.
You can watch the entire process on YouTube parts 1-9
I figured it was so, as you can see the "DOP", etc., on the markings. Just wondering whether it serves a dual purpose - penetration of the rind, per Jeff's question with this thread. Do you happen to know?
IMHO it is too superficial to be more than a mark. This series is pretty good too.
Making Parmigiano Reggiano (part 7) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBSNC8imF9I#)
Great vids, Joe. Thanks.
Neat stuff.
- Jeff
Weighed the cheese after the brining. It's now 1578g, so it lost about 28g in the brine. Now, air dry, and care for it while I wait.
Any opinions on whether or not oiling this (6.25" diameter, 3" height) wheel will be ok? Or, is this wheel too small for that, and should I wax it in a month (to prevent it drying out too much?) I've not kept a cheese au natural yet.
- Jeff
Jeff,
Thanks for sharing all your steps with this cheese. Sorry I don't have any feedback for you regarding oil vs wax for dryness prevention on this one. I guess I'd keep it in a fairly humid environment for sure.
As for the "character" of the surface, FarmerJD told us all about cheese bags well over a year ago. I made a couple to fit my mold and have never gone back to flat cheesecloth since. I made mine from old sheeting and it gives a really nice smooth surface to the wheel. The bottom is just a circle, cut slightly larger than the diameter of the mold and the side tapers slightly towards the top, to allow the bag to be brought to the outside of the mold. I place a circle of cheesecloth on top of the curd before putting the follower in.
I still have a few slight fold marks, but nothing like using the flat fabric.
Quote from: MrsKK on March 07, 2011, 03:56:03 PM
Jeff,
Thanks for sharing all your steps with this cheese. Sorry I don't have any feedback for you regarding oil vs wax for dryness prevention on this one. I guess I'd keep it in a fairly humid environment for sure.
As for the "character" of the surface, FarmerJD told us all about cheese bags well over a year ago. I made a couple to fit my mold and have never gone back to flat cheesecloth since. I made mine from old sheeting and it gives a really nice smooth surface to the wheel. The bottom is just a circle, cut slightly larger than the diameter of the mold and the side tapers slightly towards the top, to allow the bag to be brought to the outside of the mold. I place a circle of cheesecloth on top of the curd before putting the follower in.
I still have a few slight fold marks, but nothing like using the flat fabric.
Off-topic, but funny you're writing this, Karen, as with my last make, I've torn holes in the last usable patch of my existing cheesecloth. They are now brining rags, and as I'm pretty tired of buying expensive squares of dedicated cheesemaking muslin, I have started to think of, say, linen pillowcase material? Will have to think on this more, as I cannot sew (my neighbor can, though....and loves cheese.... ;)).
From all I have seen, and tried myself, Grana cheese is left to dry at about 22ºC(70ºF) in a 70% humidity environment for 2 weeks and rubbed daily with a cloth just damp with brine and vinegar. This develops a very nice, and shiny, natural rind. This rind can be a bit thick on smaller cheeses, taking up much of the cheese but the results are as I expected for flavor.
Hope someday to have a proper "Parm" kettle for a decent size wheel. I was at a Brazilian Parmesan factory and they follow all the proper DOP methods making 13 KG wheels in a 150 liter kettle. The real thing is 2 wheels, 45 Kg each, from an 1100 liter kettle.
Thanks for the tip on the cheesebag Karen. I'll probably try something like that at some point, but until I can do that I suspect I'll be looking for shapes in my cheeses. This one seems a fairly straight forward make, so is probably a good one for relative newbies. The draw back being it does call for a fairly lengthy ageing process. I'll work on a brine rind for a bit, and will probably wax it after a month. I know the rind on my caerphilly was fairly thickish by 3 weeks, and I don't have a hygrometer yet so my cave could be a bit drier than optimum.
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions everyone.
- Jeff
Jeff i would opt for the vacuum bagging or oil in this case. This type of cheese cries out for a natural rind as opposed to say a wax.
Quoterubbed daily with a cloth just damp with brine and vinegar.
Coffee Joe, could you say that do you put vinegar in brine and how much ? and is it saturated brine ?
Hande
Actually, what I am doing, after watching others, is a cloth soaked in brine and the cheese lightly misted with vinegar. The cloth, about the same as cloth diapers, is wrung to the point of being moist not at all dripping.
Hi Keith,
Yah, I was thinking of trying a natural rind, but I'm wondering if this is just too small a cheese (6.25" diamter, 3" height, it's only about 1.6 kgs, so it's not huge) and that after 6-9 months it will just be mostly rind. So, I was thinking I would build a rind for a month, then wax to prevent it from drying out further; I'm trying to get a rind that doesn't take over the cheese!
- Jeff
I would try vacuum bagging it. I ran into a problem with a cheese with too much rind and I can't get cheese wax locally(I know you can cut bees wax with other oils, but I don't know the proportions) so far so good.
I love my food-saver and I have two of my cheeses in bags now (Cheddar and a Gouda)
Jeff, Ive made a few whole milk Romanos exactly the same size as yours. 3 ht x 6.5 dia.. Aged them with an oiled rind for 4 months, then vac sealed after that. They come out great. The rind is a scant 1/8 inch thick at cutting and the cheese is in no way too dry. I think the driving factor here is the RH. If you need to get the humidity up, you can cover the cheeses loosly with an inverted bowl to keep in moistire. ...Go for the natural rind dude...wax on a Ramano is sacrilege :o :o ;)
Hi pliezar,
I don't have a vaccuum bagger. Wax is my only option. I found a recipe for cheese wax on the web that combined bee's wax and vegetable shortening. I posted it here on one of the boards (equipment?). I've got notes on it somewhere, so if I can find it I'll post it here again. I bought some wax already, so I've not tried it myself, so I can't vouch for it.
I can try and increase the humidity in the chilly bin; just add a cup of water or two, and see how it goes I guess. I'm going to try a natural rind for awhile, and see how it goes. It's not wax, it's ... uh ... bee cheese! :) Anyway, will see how it goes. The make just went so well I would hate to drop the ball on the final leg of the journey (even if time wise it is the longest leg).
- Jeff
Hi,
I tracked down the bee's wax -> cheese wax recipe:
CHEESE WAX (Ounces by weight):
13.5 ounces beeswax
2.5 ounces vegetable shortening
Heat the ingredients in an oven at 200 degrees F. until combined. Remove the wax from the oven and wait for it to reach 160-180 degrees F. Dip the cheese and remove it with one quick, smooth motion. Repeat this step until the wax is about 1/16th of an inch thick.
Again, not sure how good this is as I found it after buying some cheese wax, so I've not used it myself.
- Jeff
Well, this one is still wax-free. I've given it a few brine rub downs, and the other day it got a wipe with EVOO. As my wife has given me a wine cooler for a cheese cave (so we can put food in the freezer rather than my ice jugs for the chilly bin; oh, and I have a birthday this year! :) ) I've moved it into there. The new "cave" is much drier than the chilly bin, and I've put a bunch of bowls of water in it to try and keep the humidity up. Two days ago, I put the cheese in a plastic bag (just a shopping bag) and that, I think, is working really well. A few drops of moister were forming today inside the bag, so I've just opened it up and placed it over the cheese like a hood (bottom open) to see how that goes. If I can keep the humidity levels in a happy place, I should be able to let this one develope a natural rind. Nice.
- Jeff
Hi,
Thought I would post a photo update. It's weighed in today at 1272g (just shy of 2.8 lbs), and still natural rind and clean as a whistle. Smells great too. Still a long way to go, but should be good when it's time.
- Jeff
I have only tried a parm a couple of times. The first I waxed and for the life of me, I couldn't stop the mould growing. For the second one, Wayne advised to rub with oil, then in two weeks rub with salt, then two weeks later rub with oil, and keep alternating. The cheese is only about 6x2.5 and is almost 1 year old. I oiled and salted every fortnight for about 4 mths, then found I could drop back to once every month. Absolutely no mold. So fingers crossed that when I open this in another couple of months it will be good.