CheeseForum.org » Forum

My first Caerphilly (1 gallon trial) won't be ready to cut open for 10 more days, and the 2nd one (2 gallons, altered recipe) won't be ready to cut for another week after that. The first one followed the recipe here https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6225.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6225.0.html) except I forgot to reduce the salt when I reduced the recipe from 2 gallons to one gallon. No brining.

I feel a little more confident about the 2nd one, with some changes I made in the process. I followed the make time and salt plus brining from Peter Dixon's recipe, http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_Caerphilly.shtml (http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_Caerphilly.shtml) but nothing else from it. I'd like to duplicate this recipe and wax the cheese as Dixon recommends, just to see any difference it makes. I might, at some point, make one and age it up to the 4 months he suggests, rather than a 3 week cheese, to see the outcome too.

This time, I stuck to the holding temps a little better by wrapping a thick terry towel around the lidded pot, and did as best I could to measure pH with dip sticks, which isn't very good. Buying a good pH meter will need several months for me to save enough $$...

I'm starting another small caerphilly today and plan to include some dried thyme. (I've been adding dried thyme to olive oil with grated Parm for dipping crusty bread and really like the taste.)

Once I cut and sample these various caerphilly makes I may hate them, but at least I'm learning something along the way. Besides, I still need to buy a cache of cultures while I'm learning to make just one cheese.

Hi darius,

I'll be interested to hear how the thyme works out.  I bet it would be really nice in a gouda too.  My wife just bought me a wine cooler fridge for my birthday (which isn't until next month but she was tired of me keeping the freezer full of milk jugs to make ice for my chilly bin!), so I now have room to age more cheeses!  As such, I might make a caerphilly for longer aging as well.  I would like to see how it changes.  I have a 1/4 piece wedge from my first one still, which I'll probably have in a month.  That will be about 3 months old at that time.  My 2nd caerphilly will be ready in a week, so that will help with the patience factor.  :)  Anyway, I look forward to hearing how these various makes turn out. 

- Jeff

Hi darius,

I too am interested in the thyme and how the flavour is.  I have to agree on the Gouda, I made one that I rubbed the rind with sage and olive oil.  I am attaching the Caerphilly recipe with the modifications I did (combo of Greening of Gavin and 200 Cheese).  I just put mine into the Cheese Igloo in a ripening bin to control the humidity better.  -20C sucks the humidity out even in the house. 

I think my next one will have to be the one from your link.  we will see.

I love this site because we can share what works and what doesn't

Ian

Thanks. I like how you made modification notes in the margins!

I'd like to make one with a natural rind too. :)

Thanks for the recipe too.  The natural rind sounds interesting.  So far, mine have just had clean rinds but I've not put them in high humidity aging containers.  Might try that with the next one I make.  Great stuff.

- Jeff

I like the a natural rind on a cheese after my waxing debacle (it was really an ugly thing).  I did give the rind a quick wash of a simple brine today after work.  I don't know if it still counts as a natural rind or washed now.  I did place it in a ripening container in the fridge.  I am having humidity issues.

Okay, here's the thyme Caerphilly, and make notes.

Make on Mar 11
Used I gallon Jersey homogenized milk, local
Added ½ mL calcium chloride in 30 mL distilled water
Used 1 oz. homemade meso culture; let develop 90 minutes per Dixon
Added ¼ Marschall M-50 rennet tablet dissolved in 60 mL distilled water
Floc achieved at: 10 minutes
Used a floc multiplier of 4, per Dixon, or 40 minutes.
Raised temp to 93ºF over 20 mins, stirring. (Temp had dropped to 86.5º)
Dixon says to stir the curds somewhat vigorously after the first 20 mins, and keep it up (for maybe another 30-50 minutes) until the curds are firm and springy in the hand. Took a total of 50 minutes to get firm curds.

Settle the curds under the whey for 20 min.

Next: drain whey down to curd level and trench for 5 mins. Don't know if I can do this successfully in a shallow round pot with just 1 gallon on a cast iron burner that is hard to control for heat. (Heat already went to 96º during this last process.) My cast iron raised hobs retain heat long after being turned off.

Drain 5 minutes in cheesecloth.

Mill the curds into 1" cubes, mix in salt at the rate of 1 pound per 100 pounds of curd. I figure I have about one pound of curd, so 4.53g salt.  Then mix in the thyme. I'll start with one teaspoon and see how it looks. Well, the thyme looks okay. I'm afraid to add more lest it totally overpower. I'll find out in 3-4 weeks when I taste it!

First pressing, 7:45 pm @ 10 lbs, 20 minutes. Room temp is around 70ºF.
Remove from press, redress inverted, press another 20 mins @ 10 lbs.

Final redress and press: Remove from press, redress inverted, press overnight @ 15-20 pounds.

This morning: Removed from press, immersed in 18% whey brine @55ºF for 3 hours (2.5 hours per pound of cheese, weight was 1.25 pounds), will turn once or twice. Added a sprinkle of salt to top of wheel floating in brine.

darius

That looks nice, well done you! 

I have been hesitant to add herbs to the curd and press.  I don't know why.  I think you will have a nice cheese when it is done.

Cheers

That looks like a really nice cheese.  Looking forward to hearing about how it turned out.

- Jeff

Thanks. It was fun, and I'm as curious as anyone about the amount of thyme and how it affects the cheese. I know with some of my sausages, the herb flavors disappear.

Hi darius,

I've made one cheese where I've added sage.  I've not tried it yet as it won't be ready until near the end of April, but when I made it I boiled the sage leaves to make a kind of tea.  I let it cool, then I added the fluid to the milk at the same time as adding the starter culture.  I then added the leaves during milling of the curds, and then pressed it.  If you find the thyme flavour is a bit weaker than you like, perhaps doing something similar might help?  I'm assuming, of course, that the tea helps increase the flavour, but of course, it may not.

- Jeff

Jeff, I had read about boiling the herbs and using both tea and leaves as you did and decided to use dried herbs instead, mainly because I hadn't read of anyone doing it, posting amounts used, and tasting results.

Thanks.

Hi darius,

I think I used 2 tbls.  I just put them in a glass (sterilized) and just put boiling water over them to make the tea, and let them cool.  Drained them through a small square of cheesecloth when it came time to add the fluid to the milk, etc.  Won't be ready for about 5 weeks though, so not sure if I've over done it. 

- Jeff

Very nice looking cheese.  I'll be interested to hear how it tastes.

I found a photo of the Sage Wenslydale I made.  Adding the sage tea also provided colour to the cheese.  This one was much more yellow than any other cheese I've made (especially when the rind formed).  You can see the knit was not great, and through the cracks the cheese is much whiter.

- Jeff

Jeff, this thyme caerphilly has taken on more of a yellow hue too, but not as pronounced as your Sage Wenslydale.

It has lost 84g in 2 days of drying on the counter, and will go into the 'cave' today. (Weight now is 483g.) According to Dixon's recipe, I should have let it dry at a lower temp (55ºF) as opposed to the room temp of around 70º. I just forgot!

Hi Darius,

Interesting that even the herbs alone produce a slight colour change.  I take that as a good sign that it will ensure the flavour is throughout the whole cheese.  I know when I added the sage tea, the curds did smell of sage (or, maybe it was the sage leaves in the cup?  Nah, it was the cheese I'm sure! :) ).

Might have some friends over this comming weekend to try the caerphilly. 

- Jeff

Yesterday I started another 2 gallon batch, with some slight variations in the timing. I'm not a bit happy with the knit, but I think that's because the curds cooled too much while I was fiddling with my apparently now defunct gram scale to measure the salt! I added some lemongrass for flavor.

Hi darius,

That should be a nice one.  And, certainaly not the worst knit I've seen, so you should be ok.  The salt in the cheese should retard mold anyway.  If you have some wax, I would suggest waxing 1/2 of this one and the thyme one, and age them out to 3 or 4 months.  I have the sneaky suspicion that the herbed ones will really take off with some extra aging. 

- Jeff

Jeff, I actually had some mold develop on the thyme wheel in the cave, but raw apple cider vinegar made short work of it. It had salt added before pressing, and then a soak in 18% brine, too. That one was made from just 1 gallon of milk so I may not want to wax half when I do cut it... depends on how it tastes! This one from 2 gallons will be fine to split.

No one to share my cheese with anyway. I live in a house with my sister and her 23 year old daughter; my sister eats individually-wrapped Kraft singles, if that tells you anything.

Hi darius,

I was giving the caerphillies a wipe with brine, or surface salting and then wiping them with the brine that forms 12 hours later, a few times a week.  That's probably what helped keep the mold in check then. 

Hmm, cheese slices, eh?  I've made a cheese called "Butterkase" (German for Butter Cheese), which is supposed to be very mild, and good in things like grilled cheese sandwhiches, etc (i.e. mild, moist, and melts).  I've only just made it this past weekend, but it should be ready in 3 or 4 weeks.  It's not a difficult make, slightly easier than caerphilly as it doesn't have the stacking and milling, although it does include washing the curds but that's fairly easy to do (drain some whey and add hot water in with the curds).  When I taste it I'll report on it, and it may be one that you might like to try out as it may be one your sister will enjoy?  Also, do a search on "Dunlop" cheese.  It's a fast ripening cheddar type of cheese, that again, is probably no more difficult than caerphilly. 

- Jeff

Jeff, I've been considering a Butterkase since one of my online garden buddies recommended it... and I did see yours posted on here too.

My sister is a lost cause. We do not get along and I suspect she wouldn't eat anything I prepared out of fear I might poison her accidentally with some food I have prepared. Besides, she simply doesn't eat much or often, for the most part. She's 5'6" tall and only 83 pounds. She gets her daily calories from rum and OJ.

I'm still tweaking the caerphilly, but expect more progress once I can actually taste them! Every one I have made (5 so far) has been different in some part of the make, whether the starter, temp., pressing, salt/brine... but I am keeping decent notes for the taste tests.

Your cheese looks great! One note of caution about adding herbs/spices--less is better, especially with the longer aging cheeses. I have a few horror stories of Edam with Fennel Pollen and Havarti with dill that permeated not only the cheese, but the entire house when I opened them. Too much of a good thing--not so good  :P

Thanks, Brie. I have read many of your posts and respect your advice.  :)

I'm nowhere ready to try any long aged cheese yet. Just trying to get the basics understood for now, and if something turns out edible, well that's a plus.

I hear you darius.  I'll let you know how the butterkase turns out. 

- Jeff

I just cut into my very first Caerphilly, made 3½ weeks ago. Surprisingly, it's not as salty as I imagined it would be, after cutting the recipe in half and forgetting to cut the salt in half!

The cut made with a serrated knife shows lots of small voids, yet the smaller pieces I cut with a wire (but not all the way through before the handle broke) looks much better.

The next one I did with thyme is covered in a blue mold; I haven't been out to the root cellar (where I have them in a plastic bin) in 3 days to check them because I've been sick. I have done no blues so it isn't from another cheese, but wonder if I should leave it or wash it off with vinegar?

Oh, the first Caerphilly (from 1 gallon of milk) lost 193g in the cave and now weighs 471g.

That looks really good darius!  Much fewer holes than in mine for sure.  Glad to hear that it isn't as salty as you feared.   How is it interms of dryness/creaminess?  As I recall, you cut this one right at floculation.  Very pleased that it's turned out ok for you.  As for the blue mold, apparently it's everywherei in the wild.  It might make a good blue so if you like blue, give it a go.  Just distance it from the others.

- Jeff

Jeff, I should have let it come to room temp and taste again before vac-packing it to age longer, so I cannot really speak to creaminess/dryness. I'd say a little dry, though.

I'm thinking to let the blue stay, just need a separate container!

If you want the blue to penetrate the cheese, you'll have to poke holes in it (blue mold needs air to grow). 

How long are you going to age your caerphillies?

- Jeff

Jeff, the one I cut yesterday was not quite 4 weeks old. I cut it into one half-piece and 2 quarters, all of which I vac-packed and put back in the cave bin. I thought I'd try a quarter piece at 6 weeks and another at 2 months, but it depends on how the one at 6 weeks tastes.

On the blue... I'm not sure I want it to penetrate since it wasn't planned as a blue. In fact, I'm thinking to wash it off.

You can wash off the blue mold with a mixture of vinegar and salt.

Yep, that's exactly what I did. Thanks. :)

Hi darius,

I was wondering, have you tasted the thyme caerphilly yet?  If so, how was it?

- Jeff

No, I haven't. It was made on March 14, so it was just 3 weeks yesterday. (The one with lemongrass was made March 20.)

I had to take all the cheese out of the root cellar and out of the tub yesterday and clean them and the tub with vinegar. The thyme caerphilly is the lower lower of the 2 small wheels. It has become hard at the edge of the rind, so I may put it in a vac-bag for a few more days.

Also, a friend just gave me this wine chiller. It should be perfect for blues when I get around to making some.

They all look like they've cleaned up quite well.  You'll be ready for a cheese fest fairly soon! Looking forward to the tasting reports.

That wine chiller looks a good size too.  Get some tupperware type containers to use in the chiller and it will be quite simple to keep the humidity at a good level in the box. 

- Jeff

I couldn't wait any longer! I cut the Thyme Caerphilly today. It is REALLY nice! Not too salty, and not too heavy on the thyme...

I am immensely pleased! (and I think I will vac-pak half to see what it's like at 6 weeks.)

I also cut a 2 pound Caerphilly, made earlier. I'm not a bit impressed. It is edible, but that's all I can say for it. It's a bit tasteless, actually... and dry and a little rubbery. I'll have to go back through my notes to see what I actually did.

This caerphilly has a strange looking maroon colored mold or something on the top and bottom that didn't wash off with vinegar and salt. When I cut it, I can see that it runs through about 1/8" of the rind. I cut it off the piece I tasted.

I like the look of the Thyme Caerphilly, I think I may have to try it.  I am curious about your red mould, did you don anything different with this one?  Was it the one that was becoming a "Blue"

Gave you a cheese for Thyme

The thyme one looks great.  In fact, they both look great, so it's a curious and a shame the 2nd one is so bland in comparison.  The rinds look really good on both.  Gave you a cheese for that.

- Jeff

Thanks Jeff and Ian... and for the cheeses, too!!

I haven't had time to look at the make records for the nondescript caerphilly; been busy getting seeds started. I will look at it tomorrow and report, but I cannot really fathom what caused the red mold. Most of the changes I have made in playing with this cheese have been time and temps.

Hi,

I tried my sage wensleydale today, and unfortunately, it's not the success your thyme caerphilly was.  I was overly positive about this one, as it didn't knit well, and mold developed under the wax.  I decided to remove the wax today and clean it up.  The taste is ok, but the sage leaves can be bitter.  Probably would have been wiser to just add the tea, and leave the leaves out.  Oh well, we're going to try it tonight over backed potatoes, as it may be more suited to a cooking cheese. 

- Jeff
P.S. that should say I wasn't overly positive...

Ack.

Makes one wonder why we want to make cheese, doesn't it?

For the fame the glory the hot and cold running water....wait that is why I go to work.  I am sure it will be a good cheese to cook with, I hate wasting product, that is why most of my mozzarella failures end up as a cheese spread.  I have lots of cheese spread!

Yah, I think it would have been better to just put a layer of sage leaves in the middle of the cheese, but I didn't have any fresh leaves.  Still, if it goes well with chicken and potatoes, I'll be happy.

- Jeff

LOL, Ian!!!!

Fortunately I don't have to go to work anymore, as I'm retired and get social security. It isn't enough of course... and if our government really shuts down tomorrow, who knows what will happen in the long run. Glad I don't have to depend on my cheese for food!

I hope not!  Apparently, it was a topic of conversation at the kids' school today, too, so I'm glad my kids are aware..and they know the reason behind my ranting to my husband in the kitchen (holding a spatula & waving it about for emphasis-my Gallic blood comes out more when I'm emotional).  That's funny what you said about the cheese..they were complaining about the smell in the kitchen (I'm attempting a lactic cheese) & I told them they better be grateful I have made a few wheels as we may have to subsist on them for a while!

Anyway, I think both your Caerphilly wheels look good!  I'm sorry to hear about the other one.  I am almost dreading my turn, at least it won't be until after we get back from vacation, or I will be thinking about it!  (my mind has a bad habit about obsessing on what might've been, when it comes to baking & cooking)

I would give you a cheese, but I don't know how to, or if I'm even able to. 

Hope you have a good evening, Darius & you're enjoying your thyme Caerphilly!

Steff

PS. I started my seeds in jiffies today, too, and had a bit of a disaster with my grow lights breaking.  Pooh!

I can relate as technically we don't have a  Federal Government right now, Parliament was dissolved about 2 weeks ago and we are in our 4th election in 7 years.  Democracy at it's finest.  At least I have my cheese!

Ian, I didn't know that was going on in Canada right now. Sorry, maybe... I haven't read the politics involved.

Steff, you give someone a cheese by clicking on "thumbs up" under their name in the info box on the left of their posts. (That's just a FYI, not asking for your "cheese" !!)

I have a significant order coming in next week from Glengarry, and hope to start more cheese. Sure wish I had a cow or goats!

Aha!  Thanks, Darius.  I have actually thought of doing that before, too.  I'm a member of a craft/sewing site & there's a "this rocks" button.  I didn't associate thumbs up with the cheese, I thought it was one of those, "hey, I totally agree with what you're saying!".  I wondered what that was for.  Oh dork is me!  (cheese your way!)

I just checked my Caerphilly a few minutes ago, cos I needed to check on my tomme (they're on opposite sides of the cellar, but while I was there...) & it looks like there's a fine dusting of whitish substance on it.  It's not blooming or anything, more like...powdery dust.  Not prolific or anything, but it's on some spots.  Should I wipe it down with ACV & whatnot?

Hey, you're asking ME? LOL... but I would wash it down if it were me.

I'm thinking about ordering a piece of Caerphilly from Murray's Cheese just to see what it should be like.

Thanks for the cheese!

Quote from: kookookachoo on April 08, 2011, 03:39:06 PM
I just checked my Caerphilly a few minutes ago, cos I needed to check on my tomme (they're on opposite sides of the cellar, but while I was there...) & it looks like there's a fine dusting of whitish substance on it.  It's not blooming or anything, more like...powdery dust.  Not prolific or anything, but it's on some spots.  Should I wipe it down with ACV & whatnot?

Everything I have read about Caerphilly says this is normal, I have had it on mine and I did not wash it off, I even ate it.  If you want to be authintic you can dust it with flour too.

Ian, I mis-read what Steph wrote... I was thinking "bloom" not dusting. I think your idea is better!

Quote from: darius on April 08, 2011, 02:01:42 PM
Ian, I didn't know that was going on in Canada right now. Sorry, maybe... I haven't read the politics involved.
I have a significant order coming in next week from Glengarry, and hope to start more cheese. Sure wish I had a cow or goats!

Darius,

It is the same old thing every time, people in power wanting to keep it, and those not finding a way to get it,
all the time wasting $350 million to accomplish it.

I wish I could make an order from Glengarry and make some serious cheese.  I too wish I could get a cow or some goats, well here hoping the lottery finance plan I have for my future pans out  ;)

I had a dusting of white powdery mould on mine, the recipe said that would happen.  It was not blooming so to speak but it is supose to be there.

Why worry?  Government shut downs never last more than a few days (2 weeks would be a long shot) ...politicians would rather die than avoid compromise and stop spending ...noting that spending IS part of their job, but greedy mismanagement of our government is NOT.

Brian

PS: That's my one political post for the year... no more from me and hopefully nobody takes this and runs with it.  I just want responsibility like we all have to exercise in our own homes.

I did read about the flour dusting & it does look like that..like when you knead bread & dust it with flour & it sticks to it a bit. 

I'm upset about the other Caerphilly, though.  :(  I made two, for comparison.  The other one is slightly squat-looking, a tad bowed on the sides & now has a crack..it's more of a fissure, but there's nothing coming out & it looks dry...but, at the same time, the bottom is seeping a little & had developed some little "wounds" where the seepage is.  One of those baffling things in chemistry, I suppose..how two seemingly same things behave differently.  Maybe one was too close to the wall & got too warm?  Or too far from the side, so it's dryer?  I'm reading my notes, and apart from molding them in different molds (the container kind), they are identically made.  Sigh.

Anyway, sorry, didn't mean to crash your topic!!

Steph, this topic is open to ALL comments, not just what I am doing in playing around with the recipe!

Brian, I agree. I seldom post about politics or religion as both are full of depth-charges. (Although  I did rant politics on my blog today.)       

Steph,

How often are you flipping your cheese?  What is your humidity like?  I had something similar with a Gouda(drying and cracking), but I just put it into a small Rubbermaid container with some wet paper towel in it and it seemed to rehydrate a bit and stopped cracking so much.  There are some threads on healing your cheese here they might help.

I am still kind of new to cheese making, but I have learned that no two cheeses are alike.  I have repeated the steps as per my last notes and they still come out different is some ways.  I think of it as an adventure in some ways.

Darius,

I agree with you on the dept charges, I try not to talk to much about them either.  We have rules about no religion or politics in the Mess, but sometimes what else is there to talk about.  >:D

Hi Steff,

Yah, I too had that white dusting appear on my 2nd caerphilly.  It also showed up on my dunlop.  I'm not sure if it's from the starter culture (I use flora danica) or if it's proteins from the whey as it drains?  Anyway, I think it's normal, so if you haven't washed it away I would leave it.

Oh, and just an update on my sage wensleydale.  It melted beautifully over backed potatoes, and the taste was much more suited to being used this way.  Still, next time I make it I'll leave out the sage I think.

- Jeff

Hi, guys!

Ian, I flip my cheese a couple of times a day, once in the morning & evening when I get home.  I don't really do anything with the other cheeses, though.  The only thing I really have done apart from the flipping, is wash the tomme rind. 

Jeff,  I'm heartened to hear I'm not the only one! 

Darius, since you don't mind the hi-jack...I'll post a pic of the other Caerphilly for comparison, the one without the powdery stuff, on the UGLY side of the Caerphilly world :P this is what happened...

Photo 1: the watery top/bottom part, it's white where the seepage is happening & seems to be a tad soft on that part when I press lightly.  On the other hand...

Photo 2: the rest of it has a pretty nice rind going but for the crack on it! (it's not really that dark yellow..just realized after I uploaded it & checked my camera settings, my daughter changed it to "vivid")

I don't even know if this little dude is salvageable or not.  There's also a speck of bluish mold growing on it that I've cleaned up.  Got a lot of not-so-desirable things happening all at once, poor thing is sickly! :P

My Caerphillies are jealous of yours, their prettier cousin!  ;D

(edit: Oops! Forgot to load the pics)

Steph,

I have the white on mine too note the picture here  (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6486.msg47709.html#msg47709), I think you are safe with that.  I had some blue show up, I just washed with a salt brine and it was gone. 
How are you for humidity? You might be ripening your cheese in an area that is too dry, that could cause the crack.  My recipe says you should have it at 50F and 85% humidity.

Fixed the link

Hey, Ian!

It seems to be a common occurrence, at least, so I'm ok now.  Panic averted!  I wiped all my cheese down first thing (well, second..after I made breakfast for the kids..see where my priorities lie? before I even had my breakfast!). 

In the AM, the temp in my cave is exactly 50F, humidity always hovers at the 80% mark (I might add a bowl of water in there to see if it goes up any).  In the evening, though, for some reason, the temp spikes up to 55F!  I've seriously thought of getting a wine fridge so my hubby can rig it up to a constant temp & humidity.  I really wanted to rely on just my natural environment (the cellar), in the summer it stays 55F there even if it's 100+ outside.  But if the humidity never gets up past 80%, I don't think I'm doing my cheeses any justice. 

Now I'm stoked... look at these pictures of Gorwydd Caerphilly!
http://trethowansdairy.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/bidding-fond-farewell-to-winter-cheeses/   (http://trethowansdairy.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/bidding-fond-farewell-to-winter-cheeses/)
http://trethowansdairy.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/gorwydd-caerphilly-wins-best-welsh-cheese/ (http://trethowansdairy.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/gorwydd-caerphilly-wins-best-welsh-cheese/)

Murray's Cheese carries it... I may have to order some to see what caerphilly should taste like!
http://www.murrayscheese.com/prodinfo.asp?number=20031200000 (http://www.murrayscheese.com/prodinfo.asp?number=20031200000)

Looks good.  The rind would develope with the longer aging.  I see in the last link they age them 3-5 months and they are 8 lbs or 3.6 kg wheels.  Might have to make one for longer aging and see what happens.  Apparently there is a small cheese company here in New Zealand that also makes caerphilly, but I think it's in the South Island and I can't find any here.  Must search again.

- Jeff

I cut my lemongrass caerphilly today. It's rather crumbly and will get vac-packed and go back in the cave. The dried lemongrass gave it very little taste, which is pretty much as I expected.

I am a bit envious of your willingness to experiment with falvours, That looks like a nice cheese.  I put my Caerphilly back in the Vacuum Bag and the two parts knitted back togeather.

Looks good by the way

Hi darius,

That does look like a really nice cheese.  The texture looks really good.  I've read that caerphilly is often crumbly, so I think you're getting it right with this make.   I've only a few small pieces of my two caerphilles left, so I'll probably have to make another soon.   Hmm, would be a good time for me to do so as I have a few other cheeses comming online relatively soon so I could try aging one a few months to see what happens.

- Jeff

My friends from Maryland just stopped by for a short visit. I gave them a taste of the Caerphilly w/thyme, and they raved about it, so I sent one quarter of the small wheel home with them, and half the larger wheel of Caerphilly w/lemongrass (which was cold and they didn't sample). I also gave them some of the first Lanc, which they liked a lot, just not as much as the thyme Caerphilly.

Guess I need to make more Caerphilly with thyme!

Sounds like that one is a grand success.  I've decided my Sage Wendslydale is a great cooking cheese, just not not one for nibbling on.  It melts fantastically, and goes great on potatoes.  So, I might try herbs in the cheese again.  If I do, thyme caerphilly is at the top of my list I think.  Well done.

- Jeff

I am glad your cheese were a success, I am still hesitant to add herbs to my cheeses.  I am not that adventurous, little wine, but herbs....
we just finished the Caerphilly we made in February, the family liked it.

Ian, just bite the bullet and do it!

In the last 3 days I have made 2 more Caerphilly batches of 2 gallons each. One I did with dried thyme, about a teaspoon and a half... the other I used dried Herbs de Provençe from a sample I just got from Glengarry.

Darius, do you incorporate the thyme thoroughly or just in the middle, avoiding the sides?  I'm making a couple of Caerphillies this week, one plain & I'm thinking of doing a thyme one, as well.  I've been hesitant about adding anything to my cheeses yet, apart from the feta (I've added red pepper flakes a few times).  I do have a tomme sitting in merlot & marc right now..but, other than that, I'm chicken.  I've decided to follow your advise & add bite the bullet!

I just mix it in thoroughly along with the salt before putting it in the mold.

HTH

I just ate the last piece of the first Thyme Caerphilly I made March 12. It was great at 4-6 weeks but at 8 weeks the thyme is overpowering. IIRC, I used a tablespoon of dried thyme to a single gallon batch.

I have 2 more in the cave, made of 2 gallon batches with a tablespoon and a half of thyme each batch. That may still be too  strong if they age more than 6 weeks.

That's interesting.  The Sage Wenslydale that I made was over 6 weeks, so perhaps that's why I found it so strong?  Anyway, I found it made a great cheese to cook with so if the next wheels are too strong you may be able to use them on potatoes, etc.

- Jeff

Jeff, I thought this one would be great crumbled on a pizza with spinach in the topping...

Forgot to add: Today I had the last of the first Caerphilly I made at the end of February. I had vac-packed a small piece and forgot about it in the cave. I must say even though I screwed up the salt in the recipe, it is still a fine tasting cheese now at about 8-9 weeks!

Sounds good!  I've got a caerphilly aging that's around 5 weeks now I think.  I made this one with the intention of aging it well out as I have a number of cheeses that are getting ready to try.  Curiously, this one has been quite mold prone, which neither of my other two were?  I've been wiping it down with saline quite regularly, and vinegar on occasion too, but blue mold keeps comming back.  I think my aging boxes are a bit humid, but I've been propping them open.  Anyway, sounds like letting this one sit around for awhile will be well worth it.  Thanks for the updates!

- Jeff

Jeff, most of my cheese get vac-packed at around 3½-4 weeks, excepting the 2 'stiltons' I have aging in their own prison cell. Usually I have cut them to try, and then vac-sealed each half. I'm having a difficult time keeping the humidity high enough without growing molds if I don't seal them.

I'll be glad when I can finally get the electric and plumbing work done in my root cellar so I can connect the old refrigerator I got for a cave in there. Right now it's sitting out in the yard (which is beginning to look like a junkyard)!

Hi darius,

I've not got a vaccuum sealer, so I have to fight the mold and adjust the lids until I get it right.  The past few days have been looking better, with no great return of mold just yet.  Mind you, one part of the problem is that it's been cool but humid here, so air drying doesn't really form a rind as quickly.  Anyway, I'm keeping ahead of things, if only just. 

Finished the dunlop today.  That is definately one I'll make again.  Will probably age it out a few months next time.

- Jeff

All this reading about caerphilly has got me interested.
Can someone describe this cheese to me, what it tastes like?  Gather it is a hard cheese.
My parents were Dutch and emigrated to Australia with 11 children.  Mum used to always be on the lookout for a hard cheese with herbs in it (may have been fennel - may also have been thyme)  looked a lot like Darius cheese!  Hated it as a child, always spat out the bits. LOL
Would love to try one.  Where do I start?  Any good recipes for a novice who hopes to have a cheese fridge by the end of the weekend, who has no vacuum sealer or pH meter yet.
Any suggestions happily  received.

Hi Gemma,

Here's the recipe I use.  I've not added herbs, but darius has and she's had great success with thyme.  I usually make this in 10 L batch size.  It can be eaten around 3 weeks, at which point it has the "sour tang" of young cheese to it.  I've got one that I'm now aging to 3 months as it's suppose to mellow out by then.  It's a "cheddar" type, meaning you stack the curds (cut them into slabs and then build little piles with the slabs) and milled (break the curds into small bits).

Personally, I think this is a great cheese to start with because it's not too difficult to make and it can be eaten quite soon after wards.  That way, you can find out if you're doing it right.

when I make it, I use a 3x floc; if you don't know what I mean by that, then do a search on floculation point, or "spinning bowl".  Basically, you float a small plastic bowl in your milk at the time you add the rennet.  the "floc point" is how long it takes such that if you give the bowl a gentle twist it won't spin (because your milk has thickened due to the rennet).  If this occurs at 10 minutes after you added the rennet, then using a 3x floc means multiply this time by 3, so 30 minutes, and cut the curds 30 minutes after you added the rennet (not 30 minutes after floc!).  I.e. if you put the rennet in at 12:00, and you achieved flocculation at 12:10, then a 3x factor means cut at 12:30.  Do not worry about "clean break", just cut at the appropriate time.  You want a floc time in the range of 10-15 minutes, so if it is faster (6-8 minutes) then next time you make cheese use less rennet, but if it takes longer (20 minutes, etc), then use a bit more. Eventually you will learn how much rennet you need to use with the kind of milk you use.

- jeff

Caerphilly: Making Artisan Cheese by Tim Smith and modified it a little by Gavin (from Greening of Gavin blog).
7.5 litres whole milk (2 gallons)
1 quarter teaspoon (about 2 ml) mesophillic culture
1 eighth teaspoon (about 1 ml) calcium chloride diluted in 60ml cool unchlorinated water
1 half teaspoon (about 3 ml) liquid rennet diluted in 60ml cool unchlorinated water
2 tablespoons non-ionised salt

1)   Heat milk to 32°C
2)    Add the calcium.
3)   Add the starter culture
4)   Ripen thirty minutes at target temperature.
5)   Maintaining the temp of 32°C add the rennet to the milk.
6)   Floc multiplier : 3x (time based: 40 minutes)
7)   Cut the curds into 6mm (¼ inch) cubes
8)   Raise the temp to 33°C (92°F) over ten minutes.
9)   Cook at 330C for forty minutes stir frequently to keep the curds from matting.
10)   Rest at target temp for five minutes
11)   Drain the curds into a cheese cloth lined colander, and let whey drain for a 5 minutes.
12)   Cut the curds into 2.5 cm (1 inch) thick slabs, and stack on top of one another.
13)   Turn the stack over, top to bottom, two times in ten minutes.
14)   Milling : break the curds into thumbnail-sized pieces, and blend with salt.
15)   Fill a cheese cloth-lined 1kg cheese mould with the salted curds and press at 5kg (10 pounds) for ten minutes.
16)   Remove and rub a layer of salt on both top and bottom. Flip/redress Press at 5kg (10 pounds) for ten minutes.
17)   Repeat the same procedure (salt), pressing at 7.5 kg (15 pounds) for twenty minutes.
18)   Repeat the same procedure, pressing at 7.5 kg (15 pounds) for sixteen hours.
19)   Air dry on a cheese mat and cheese board for about 3-4 days. Make sure you turn the cheese several times a day to ensure even drying and fat distribution.
20)   When the cheese is dry to touch, Place in your cheese cave at 13ºC (55ºF) at 80-85% humidity for three weeks, turning several times a week. No need to wax this cheese. It will form a rind, and if any mould develops, simply rub the cheese with cloth dipped in some salty water. The salt in this cheese should retard mould growth anyway.

Thanks JeffHamm. 
I have written down the notes for the kitchen.  Will start a camembert tomorrow, than through the week, work permitting I will try to get one started.  Thanks for your help with the booterkasse as well, much appreciated the prompt replies.
Darius did you use dried thyme 1.5 tsp?  Do you think I could replace this with dill?
Thank you all

Sorry Darius, having a derr day.  I meant fennel not dill

Oh gemma,

Just a heads up.  Use the amount of rennet that normally gives you a floc time in the 10-15 minute range.  The recipe above says 2 mls, but if I used that amount for my 10 L makes I would get floc in about 2 seconds!  I typically use 0.6 mls now, and that gives me a floc time around 13 minutes.  From your butterkase make, I would think if you used around 0.8 mls you'll be in the target time window.

Rennet comes in such different strengths that I should change all my notes to just read "use amount of rennet that gives you floc time in the 10-15 minute range, or based upon packet instructions".

- Jeff

Cool, thanks Jeff.
Hope to start this on Wednesday.  Now I have discovered how to post photos, I'll take some pics.
I've found that this is probably a good way of learning.  Write it up, take photos, post and get some educated opinion.
Gemma

The Caerphilly adventure starts.
8 litres of Milk has been cultured with mesophillic starter and calcium chloride - rested for 30 mins at 32 degrees
Liquid rennet diluted in 30ml water (0.9ml) stirred in a up and down motion
19 minutes and still no flocculation time.  May just be starting to change.
Will leave for 1 hour and look for a good curd set.

Flocculation time was 25 minutes.  Cut curds at 75 minutes - Good set
1/4" cut, now slowly heating to 33 C over 10 minutes.
Stool ready for stirring time.
Colander ready with cheese cloth for draining.

Hi gemma,

Ok.  Sounds like next time try a bit more rennet, maybe 1.2 ml and see where that gets you in terms of floc time.  As you make the same cheese over and over, you may find that the ideal amount of rennet varies a bit between cheeses.  This can be due to the fact that different temperatures are used, and different amount of times for just the starter to work before adding rennet (ripening times).  These sorts of things affect how the rennet works, so one type of cheese might give you a good floc time with 1.0 ml, another might take 1.2, etc.  Anyway, will be on the lookout for the photos of the cheese once it's done with the press. 

I keep my notes on my computer, this way I can look them over before I make a cheese to see what I did before and what might need "tweaking". 

Here, for example, is the layout of one of my caerphilly makes.  Next time I make one, I copy the previous notes, remove the particulars of times and temperature, etc, and then just fill in the details.  Seems to work for me, but you may find a better system for yourself.

Sat, Apr 16, 2011; Low Pressure, Temp 21 C, raining. 
Caerphilly
10L Home Brand Standard milk
¼ tsp 30% CaCl.
4 ice cubes flora danica
0.6 ml rennet in egg cup of water.

1)   Warm to 320C, add ¼ tsp CaCl, 4 ice cubes mesophillic culture (Flora Dancia) : 12:43 (hit 32.8)
2)   Wait 30 min (target time 1:13) Time: 1:14:30   
3)   Time 1:14:30 Temp 31.80C, add rennet (0.6 ml, in water), stir (target floc of 12-15 min; 0.6 = 14 last time)
4)   Floc time 1:26:30 so 12 min, 3x floc so wait until : 1:50:30  (36 min; 40 by recipe!) Target cut time: 1:50:30
5)   1:50:30  Cut into 6mm cubes.  v.good curd
6)   Rest 5 minutes to heal (start 1:55:45-2:00:45)
7)   Raise temp to 33 over 10 minute  (2:10 reached 33 about 2:05, starting temp was 32.5 ish)
8)   2:10: stirring for 40 min with curds at 330C (34.0 0C; it reached 34 in the bath, so moved to counter)
9)   2:50 : Pitch and drain after 5 minutes (temp is 33.2 0C)
10)   3:05   drain in cheese cloth for 5 minutes
11)   3:15 : cut into 1 inch slices, stacked (in the pot; in sink with warm water)
12)   Flipped stack twice over 10 minutes
13)   Milled into thumbnail size bits
14)   Added 2.5 tbls of salt
15)   Pressing in the pot under 5 kg (3:45-3:55). (10 minutes; water in sink is 43.6 0C)
16)   Flip, salt, and re-dress  (no salt this flip as the curds were not well knit)
17)   Press in the pot under 5Kg (4:00-4:10) (10 minutes)
18)   Flip, salt, and re-dress
19)   Press in the pot under 10.0 kg (20 min) (4:15-4:35)
20)   Flip, salt, and re-dress
21)   Press overnight under 20 kg. (starting at 4:42pm using even more weight as curds not knitting, though should be fine by morning)
Weight out of pot 1.464 kg;   Good knit, with a couple minor spots that didn't seal.  Will fix with smoothing.

Air dry for 3-5 days until dry.

Saturday, May 28, 2011: brushed back and brown wild mold spots with nail brush and dry salted.
Saturday, June 18, 2011: weight 1110g

- Jeff

Thanks Jeff.
Used your recipe as I had to start somewhere.  Have basically done the same as you have apart from using organic milk
At the moment I am pressing.  Interesting looking at the changes you made.
Had a look at the Greening of Gavin site as well.  Really a bit of an inspiration!
My curds don't look like they are really compressing properly, so I may try the 16 hour press with 20kg like you did.
Do I have to do two x 16 hour presses?
Appears to be more time consuming?  Fun though

Hi gemma,

I would think one overnight press would be fine.  If it's not a good knit by morning, I've read that you can put a cheese in 100 F (37.7 C) water for a bit, then back in the press.  This would warm up the outter curds and may improve the seal.  I think you can only do this right out of the press, not if it's been air drying for a few days. 

- Jeff

Hi gemma,

Just thought of something.  When you dilute your rennet, do that just before you add the rennet to the milk.  Don't prepare it in advance and let it sit around in the water.  This will weaken the rennet.  I dump mine into the water, give a wee stir, then dump it into the milk.   

- Jeff

Thanks Jeff, did do that as I had read it on the forum.
Just weighed my new cheese and it weighs 1.3kg WOW!
Will try another one though as I feel the curd didn't quite compress the way it should have.
My partner has the camera so I will post a pic as soon as I have it back.

Darius I found out that the herb that was in mum's cheese was caraway seed, so will definitely give that a go.
Rind already starting to go yellow at top edge.  I feel really happy with my first go at this.
Thanks everyone.

Some photos of my first caerphilly.  Thanks Darius and Jeff.
Not happy with the texture as it still appears to have a textured surface.  Read on the forum about pressing in brine at a set temperature,
will try to do some further reading on that before I make my next one with seed.
Darius, do the smaller ones work ok?  Are they any different and do you have to adjust your times and weights of pressing accordingly?

gemma, I've made one or two that were just 1 gallon of milk, but kept everything else the same (except cutting additives in half). The very first Caerphilly I made was 1 gallon, and it has been the very tastiest thus far. Of course, it was also aged the most!

I suspect the curds are cooling down too much.  I stack mine in the pot I make the curds in, and keep the pot in a sink of hot water (around 40 C).  Also, when you pack the curds into the cheesecloth lined mold, you can pack them a bit with your hands to remove any obvious caveties, and make sure you pull up the sides of the cloth when you put the follower on top. This can help pack the curds a bit too.   Finally, although I'm not familiar with your press, as I understand it, what will happen is that as you press your cheese it will, of course, shrink away from the top bar.  That means you need to reset the press every hour or two for the first while.  I just stack weights on top of mine, so the weights sink down with the cheese as it gets pressed. 

Oh, and darius, didn't you add extra salt to your first caerphilly as well?  I seem to recall you had added the 2 gallons amount of salt for the 1 gallon make. 

- Jeff

Yes, indeed I did, Jeff. Added salt, did not brine. Although I did not intentionally add extra salt, I just forgot I cut the recipe in half! Once it aged 60-90 days it was as perfect as I could want, and not salty at all.

That's what I thought.  I think this tell us that when adding salt, with caerphilly it is safe to add a bit more than the standard recipe calls for.  It might be one of the reasons why your first one turned out so good, though perhaps the extra salt also requires extra aging.

- Jeff

OK thanks Darius and Jeff
Will try a smaller version on Wednesday.
Reading over the instructions I should have mantained the temp with cutting the curd and stacking. 
I cut the stack from top to bottom, and looking at some of the other photos I probably should have taken
horizontal slices.
The edges are starting to go quite dry, ? humidity?
Will try some caraway seeds in the next lot.
Should I start a new thread for this? or can I continue on in this one?  Really appreciate the help I'm getting
Gemma

Hi gemma,

I would think the temperature of the curds is more important than the directin of slicing.  Keeping them warm improves the knit, and influences how the cultures work on the milk. 

In terms of drying out, how are you storing your cheese?  I keep mine in plastic boxes, with lids, inside a wine cooler fridge.  By adjusting the lid I can, roughly, adjust the internal humidity of the box.  If the cheese developes cracks, it's too dry so close the lid more, but if you're fighting mold on a daily basis, and there's condensation in the box, etc, it's too humid so open the lid more.  Yah, very exact science here I know, but this does tend to work once you work out the proper lid placement.

Starting a new thread isn't necessary, but it may (or may not) attract other board members if they knew you were trying something new and were looking for suggestions and input?  But continuing this thread is also appropriate since we're all posting about various aspects of making caerphilly, which is all on topic.  If you do start a new thread though, include a post here directing people to it by telling us what the title of your new thread is.  Will also help future readers as they explore the archives.

- Jeff

My partner has just rewired a commercial display fridge for me.  He has added a heating pad that I normally use for my beer brewing to heat the
fridge when it cools down too much.  We're using that until he can obtain a heating element from the net.
The cheeses are all tucked in.  Now I will have to learn temperature control.  Just as well I'm not at uni at the moment.  ;D  The learning curve is huge.
One day I may even make a cheese that I can display with pride and people will know what it is. (Not Fetta) lol
Will try another caerphilly on the weekend for my brother.

Started the Caerphilly for my brother.
Brought the 4L of A2 milk to room temp.
Warmed to 32c, added 0.9 ml CaCl and half a sachet of Flora Danica (mad millie) into milk.
Waiting 90 minutes to culture

In the meantime am putting on a batch of shortbread, and helping my partner plant some more apple trees.

Adding 0.6ml of vegetarian rennet, aiming for a 15 minute floc time.

After reading through material supplied with rennet have changed the amount to 0.8ml.  Information states to use 0.2ml to 0.5ml
per litre of milk.  Last caerphilly had a very slow floc time, this may be why.

Floc time 11 minutes, next time I will aim for slightly less rennet.  Bit warmer today, so may also be affecting the setting time.
Cut curd at 33 minutes, well set.  Rested for 5 minutes
Raised temp over 10 minutes to 32C.  Kept at 32C for 40minutes.  Have found that my new simmer mat will keep my pan at just the right temp
without any heat underneath.  Beautiful!
Now for the next few steps.

Sounds like it's all going to plan.  Nice.  11 min floc is good.  Anything between 10 and 15 is what you're aiming for.

- Jeff

Quote from: gemma.tyson on July 09, 2011, 02:46:51 AM
Waiting 90 minutes to culture

In the meantime am putting on a batch of shortbread

I'm not sure but this might cause you some problems. Are you making cheese and baking in the same area?  ???

-Boofer-

Hi Boofer.
Milk was culturing in warm lounge room, whilst shortbread cooking in oven.
Am wiping down with vinegar between stages.
Nothing cooking now, just cheese turning and pressing.
Once it's on it's final press of 16 hours, it will be going into the dining room.
Still have to bottle a batch of beer which has been patiently waiting in the laundry, than have to bake some bread.
Sigh!  So much to do, and only so many days to do them all in  :D

Just a thought Boofer.  Shortbread is only butter, flour and sugar.  Would this affect the cheese.
Was pretty paranoid all day today.  Thought only other cultures would have the possibility of affecting the cheese culture
We have been thinking of building a brewery extension!  May have to consider a cheese kitchen as well  8)

Quote from: gemma.tyson on July 09, 2011, 06:42:31 AM
Just a thought Boofer.  Shortbread is only butter, flour and sugar.  Would this affect the cheese.
Was pretty paranoid all day today.  Thought only other cultures would have the possibility of affecting the cheese culture
We have been thinking of building a brewery extension!  May have to consider a cheese kitchen as well  8)

Sorry for the paranoia. Wasn't sure what the shortbread entailed. I believe the main worry is yeast-risen baked items because the yeasties have a tendency not to stay where they are supposed to and any cheese on the make may suffer.

-Boofer-

Thanks Boofer.
My partner thinks I'm a bit paranoid.  Even sandwiches are banned from my cheese area when I'm making cheese :)
Have attached a photo of the cheese, sent my brother a copy of the cheese as well so he can be a part of the making.

That looks very good!  Nice make.

- Jeff

Thanks Jeff.
Am really pleased with the end result.  Thanks Darius for the inspiration of a half batch.
My brother is really looking forward to trying it.  Sending photos on a regular basis to remind him he needs to
live long enough to taste it.  It's hard when you live so far away from the major cities.  Would love to be closer
to spend these last few weeks with him.  He's getting married on Thursday to his partner.  Bedside wedding, but I
suppose for them it doesn't matter where they get married.  Hope to get down again next weekend.  Thought I might
cut my now nearly 3 week old first caerphilly just to tempt him.
Will post a photo when I cut it.  Still not quite knitted together.  Second one is much better

Hi gemma,

Looking forward to your report on your first caerphilly.  I've found that if the outer knit is not all that good, it is not uncommon for the inner cheese to still be really tasty.  You just have to cut away the outter moldy bits so you lose more cheese that way. 

I hope your brother's last days are as comfortable as they can be.  Congratulations to him and his partner on their wedding.  Joy in sad times is still joy and worth celebrating.  Take care.

- Jeff

My caerphilly is just going onto 3 weeks now.
Going to see my brother this afternoon as I couldn't go to the wedding.  Have cut the first caerphilly and had a taste, I'm amazed, it actually does taste good.  Am going to take a small piece for him to try while he is waiting for his.
The texture is a little on the creamy side.  Even though the outside did not appear to have knitted all that well, the inside only has a little bit of open texture, slightly crumbly in these areas.  It has a good taste, salt is just right, tastes a little like a lightly matured cheese.  I think I may have to make some more! 

Yah!  :)

I really like caerphilly when it's young.  It has a sort of tang to it.  Your's looks really good on the inside, and even the outside knit isn't too bad.  You're recent gouda shows you've got that solved though.  I find caerphilly is a good cheese to make when you have others that you want to age a long time.  If you have one of these approaching the 3 week mark, then you can eat it while the others remain safe! ;)  Anyway, congratulations again on your success. 

- Jeff

My brother approved of the cheese, so all good.
We had some for lunch on the trip to town.  We really enjoyed it as well.
I actually enjoyed it more than shop bought cheese.   O0