Hi-
On saturday I did a raclette, latter on sunday I spray it with some of the B linens bacteria that I activated the day before.
My question is if I can still use the same batch from Sunday or I have to do a new batch for Wednesday (I'm keeping the B linens on the fridge)?
And my other questions is, how many times do I have to spray the cheese during the aging process (on the recipe says that it should be spray the first and on the third day). Should I brine the cheese again during aging??
Thank you for your help.
It should be brined after removing from mold. If you brine again after spraying b.linens, salt will kill the bacteria. Yes, you can use the same batch for 1-2 weeks but later the strength of bacteria diminishes, my observation. Also salt should be around 3-5% for b.linen spray solution. Spray every other day until you see color change on the rind, 3-5 spraying should be enough. Then keep the rind dryer before packaging/aging.
Tan
If the rind is not showing any change in color after 8 days should I keep sparing the cheese with the bacteria or should I stop, and wait for the bacteria to start working???
My cave is about 49-52f and 90% RH. I'm also opening the top of the container for about 1 or 2 hours daily for the cheese to breathe, making sure that the humidity don't go down.
Any suggestion will be great
Morfeo,
My cheeses never show b.linens right away, it usually takes a couple of weeks... sometimes more.
I would wash every other day in your place.
- Helen
After three weeks the b.linens is starting to show, should I stop spraying the cheese with the bacteria or should I keep doing it and for how long??
This is an update of my raclette.
After a month my raclete is covered with the yellow bacteria.
I just have two questions:
1) Is the green mold on the picture normal??
2) Why is that when I open the cooler in where I keep the cheese, the cooler is smelling like gas or something dead, and when I smell the cheese it doesn't smell like that. Is that smell bad??
My cooler temperature is 48f-52f and the humidity on the container is 90%.
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/morfeo79/raclette/raclette.jpg)
Nice!
You dont want the green stuff,wipe it off.
How should I wipe the green mold???
Salt water will be fine, with or without vinegar. Your cheese looks great! You don't need any more linens--but continue to let the cheese breathe outside of the cave at lest once per week.
If I wipe it with salt water or vinegar, will the linens grow back on the white spots again???
Hi everyone.
My raclette is 2 months already and on the recipe said that I can age it from 2 to 4 months, but the problem is that the bacteria is kind of wet just like on the picture above, and I know that the raclette has a nice dry orange rind but mine is far away from that.
My question is if I can eat it like that or should I start to reduce the humidity for the rind to dry a little.
or should I wait until the bacteria dies or dry by itself.
Just do a dry cycle before moving it to the fridge. Keep it out of the ripening box in the cool dry part of the cave or even fridge. It will get dry in a day or two. The same conditions you use to dry a bloomy cheese before putting in the cave will be perfect.
Hi people this is a update on mi raclette.
After 2 1/2 months the cheese is looking pretty good and is smelling awesome, the bacteria is almost dry to touch on the sides of the rind but on the top and on the bottom still a little moist and sticky, I think is because of the grid that I'm using under.
As you can see everything is perfect, but I just have a question.
Can I eat it like that or should I wait a little more until the rind is dryer??
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/morfeo79/raclette/raclette1.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/morfeo79/raclette/raclette2.jpg)
Wow, nice looking pumpkin! I mean cheese. You could eat it now, but why not give it a shot getting a little dryer? Use it as a learning experience to get the cheese right where you want it. Can you post your recipe?
Thank you for you help I think I'm going to replace the grid where the cheese is siting for something with bigger holes and wait two more weeks to let the top and the bottom dry a little more.
I used a combination of these two recipes, they have their differences but I think you can use them with no problem.
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,995.msg26621.html#msg26621 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,995.msg26621.html#msg26621)
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,997.0.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,997.0.html)
Thanks, much appreciated, and a cheese to boot!
Ok people this is my last update on the raclette.
I cut it last week and it was a little salty but that wasn't the problem.
It taste pretty bad I'm just guessing that is because it was on a closed cooler most of the day, so every time I opened it had a very strong odor something like methane gas (I think that was the bacteria's bio product) so the cheese end up tasting like that.
The other reason for it's odd flavor I think is because the bacteria never dried completely and was too thick that it ens up overpowering the flavor of the cheese.
I would like to know what did I do wrong, and how can I fix it for the next batch??
Here are some pictures for you to see the thickness of the bacteria, and how the cheese looks like.
By the way the cheese end's up on the trash can it was completely uneatable. :'(
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/morfeo79/raclette/Raclette5.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/morfeo79/raclette/Raclette4.jpg)
Too bad, it looks great. :(
Seems quite a change from June 21st when you reported it was smelling awesome.
-Boofer-
Boofer is weird but the cheese didn't smells bad, it just smells like cheese....
Is just that the cheese taste like the gas smell that was in the box.
Since you where the only one to comment yesterday can you tell me if is possible that the gas smell was able to affect the taste of the cheese and if is that the problem how can I fixed that.
I'm not sure what you are really smelling. If you say methane, it makes me think that the cows were eating gas producing green matter that became part of the milk. If it were me, I think I'd divide the cheese two or three ways and vacuum-seal them. Then put them away in your fridge or cave for a while. Then later, pull one out and sample it. You might be surprised.
If someone with more farm experience could offer a more informed opinion, that would be welcomed.
-Boofer-
I would just seek a different recipe to try. Also two comments:
1). Your rind is REALLY red which means you may not be using the right B.Linen and/or Yeasts for this cheese and that you are washing too much. After it reaches a certain shade you need to stop washing and let it do its thing. Such shade is actually lighter than your desired shade because initially it will continue becoming stronger. Then some wild geo will start taking hold in a form of random white powdery covering. This is important because that geo contributes to the breakdown of proteins in your cheese which gives it some of its texture. It also tapers off some of the stinkiness of the cheese. That doesn't mean that the cheese will stop being stinky, it's more like throwing a pinch of salt in a very sweet cake batter when you are baking, just to balance off the sweetness, know what I mean?
2). Form factor. The shape and proportion of the cheese need to be like an original Raclette. Even if your wheel is smaller you should keep the same shape/proportions. This is ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT with surface ripened cheeses because the rind treatment is what ages this cheese and it needs to be flat enough to allow the rind of each side to work its magic through on the cheese all the way to the center. I can't tell you how many failed reblochons, St. Nectaire, Morbiers, Tallegio and other such cheeses I've seen here where the recipe, make and affinage had all the good reasons to work but the wrong shape just killed the cheese.
Quote from: iratherfly on July 31, 2011, 01:10:34 PM
2). Form factor. The shape and proportion of the cheese need to be like an original Raclette. Even if your wheel is smaller you should keep the same shape/proportions. This is ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT with surface ripened cheeses because the rind treatment is what ages this cheese and it needs to be flat enough to allow the rind of each side to work its magic through on the cheese all the way to the center. I can't tell you how many failed reblochons, St. Nectaire, Morbiers, Tallegio and other such cheeses I've seen here where the recipe, make and affinage had all the good reasons to work but the wrong shape just killed the cheese.
This is a good point and not one, I think, that is
mentioned stressed enough in cheesemaking books or on this forum. Perhaps we need a little more information with reference to cheese styles and appropriate form factors for home cheese makers so that we can be more successful.
-Boofer-
Hi-
This is the bacteria that I'm using (SR3) Brevibacterium linens (orange color) , I think my real problem is that I washed the rind to much and it over populate the rind of the cheese. I did the wash for about two or three weeks every other day.
And I think my second problem was the cooler, I think it was to small and the gas wasn't able to scape and because of that it changed the flavor of the cheese.
In the other had the cheese wasn't to big it was just 4" diameter by 3" tall.
I'm planning to make this cheese again next week do you have any suggestions on how should I do the wash??
Thank you.
It's not the size that matters, it's the proportion. Raclette is disc-shaped for a good reason. so 4"x2" would have been much better, though I would maybe try and find a mold to do it about 7"x3".
As for the rind - have you used any yeasts like R2R? It looks like that crazy color. Definitely is too much washing. Start washing around day 4 to 7. First week wash every other day. Second and third week wash twice a week only, then stop. It will continue to get stronger color after you are done washing though it may get covered with white Geo spotting that would make it more difficult to notice
I didn't use any yeast, and yes it had a crazy color just like a pumpkin.
Thank you for your advice I'll fallow your instructions on the next batch.
Question:
Can you add the bacteria directly to the curds before pressing instead of spraying the cheese with it?
How the cheese will taste??
Absolutely yes, you can. The cheese will taste the same. It may take a bit longer for the B.Linen to take a hold this way (if you are not including them in your brine). Use 1/8 teaspoon for each 1 gallon milk. Add it together with the ripening bacteria.
Quote from: iratherfly on August 01, 2011, 09:44:23 PM
Use 1/8 teaspoon for each 1 gallon milk.
Really? For my makes that would mean 1/2 tsp for 4 gallons milk. Seems a
little high. :o
-Boofer-
Actually you are right, I didn't really elaborate. It goes in stages. 1/8 tsp for 1-3 gal, 1/4 tsp for 4-6 range and 1/2 tsp for 6-8 gal. Beyond that I just measure in doses according to the instruction for production size batch. Doesn't make a huge difference; what's more important is that there will be balance and equality between the different cultures so that you don't put 1/16th tsp PC (which should be enough for 1 gallon) with 1/8 geo (which is recommended for 1 gallon but more than enough) because you will have a geo takeover in that 1 gallon cheese, so just make sure they are in proportion to each other and over the minimum requirement -based on your recipe and familiarity with the aggressiveness of your particular culture.
will the bacteria survive in a 100% salt brine or needs to be a different percentage?
Quote from: morfeo on August 02, 2011, 01:33:28 PM
will the bacteria survive in a 100% salt brine or needs to be a different percentage?
Wouldn't 100% salt brine just be dry salt...with no water? What do you really mean?
-Boofer-
Quote from: Boofer on August 02, 2011, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: morfeo on August 02, 2011, 01:33:28 PM
will the bacteria survive in a 100% salt brine or needs to be a different percentage?
Wouldn't 100% salt brine just be dry salt...with no water? What do you really mean?
-Boofer-
Yes, a brine that is made with 100% salt is just ...salt.
When reffering to brine saturation (light medium, heavy), the "heavy"category begins at 18% salt which should be sifficient to kill most pathogens but the cheese bacteria will survive it (especially because it feeds on all the good stuff in the cheese and while the surface is overwhelmed with an antiseptic 18% of salt, the body of the cheese will only absorb about 2% salt so the bacteria is still alive inside). 16% salt is not safe enough to kill all pathogens. 24% is very dense and heavy. It's significantly saltier than 18% but it's thicker and usually used to create a thicker rind faster.
Brine saturation tops of at 26% salt. Why? Simple: Water cannot absorb more than 26% salt. It just stops absorbing it and whatever salt you add over 26% will not dissolve and stay as hard flakes. You will notice it gets more difficult to dissolve salt when you get closer to 26% and then it becomes impossible.
Your right 100% is pure salt I don't know what I was thinking.
how can I calculate the percentage of salt???
Correct me if I'm wrong: lest say that I have a gallon of water that weight 8.3lbs, if I want 18% brine the amount of salt will be 1.494lbs (8.3 x 18 = 149.4/100 = 1.494)
is this correct??
Yes, you can calculate by weight or by volume: 1 part salt to 4.5 parts water; (100-18=82. That's 18 parts salt and 82 parts water.
To find out the ratio divide 82 by 18 and you get approx 4.5 so the ratio is 4.5:1). That being said, large flakes of salt trap lots of air in them. I also hope you are using pure salt because some salts have anti caking agents added to them and there is also a % of other natural minerals.
The absolute best way to measure salinity is by using a salometer; an inexpensive idiot-proof device. It is essentially nothing more than a glass buoy with marks on its side that indicate the salt level based on how well it floats. (Because the more salt you have, the denser/thicker are the water and the effects of gravity are reduced). So, the more salt is in your brine, the higher it floats and the number you see is higher.
It's the same principle of floating on the dead sea (which is 18% salt as oppose to 3.5% in a normal ocean, where you don't float) or, if you have ever dunked your cheese in something not salty or light brine, you see that it sinks to the bottom immediately. At 16% salt, the brine is dense enough to float the cheese so its top side is just slightly below the water line. At 18% the top side of the cheese is just touching or slightly over the water line. At 24% half the cheese is immersed and the other half if above the water. Makes sense?
You can get those on eBay or Amazon for about $20. They are non chemical and non mechanical, they never need replacing or calibrating, but they are rather fragile. Here's my salometer in a pitcher of 18% brine:
IRF, thanks for taking the time to clarify all this.
I've been putting off getting a salinometer.
-Boofer-
Thank you for your help.
I just wanted to know how to calculate the amount of salt by weight and you clear my mind.
I have a hydrometer at home (the one that I use for my reef tank) I'll get a new one this weekend.
I'll keep post on my new raclette.
Morfeo - Would love to see that Raclette when it's time!
Boofer - get one. It's not urgent but certainly useful to have and it never gets inaccurate. (In theory it will work forever but the glass ones will break if you drop them; that's the only way to end their lifecycle).
Get a short one. I first got a long one and it was really annoying to find a measuring pipe that fit instead of dropping it in the brine bowl which was too low or using it with a small sample in a small pipe or tall juice glass.
Matfer makes a good one that is relatively short (7 7/8" so somewhere around the length of a pencil). These guys sell it for $15: http://www.culinarycookware.com/salometer.html (http://www.culinarycookware.com/salometer.html)
Boofer here is another website, here you can find the hydrometer and the pipe to do the test, some of those hydrometer have a thermometer on the center that is very useful on my aquarium I don't know if it matters if your are going to use it jut for the brine.
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/winemaking-equipment/measuring-testing/hydrometers-refractometers.html (http://www.midwestsupplies.com/winemaking-equipment/measuring-testing/hydrometers-refractometers.html)
or if you want you cant try this one too, since is made out of plastic is almost unbreakable is for aquariums but the function is the same it will give you two types of measure the salinity on the water one is the specific gravity and the other is the salinity PPT (Parts Per Thousand) this one is very simple to use too.
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4945 (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4945)
Thanks guys.
-Boofer-
morfeo, it's not a hydrometer it's a salometer.
Hydrometer - meters hydration
salometer - meters salinity
:o I'm sorry I think the rest of the world is incorrect too!!!!
Is the same with two different names, the function of the salometer and the hydrometer is to measure the specific gravity on a liquid.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/salometer (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/salometer)
http://www.google.com/search?q=hydrometer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a (http://www.google.com/search?q=hydrometer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrometer)
Let me clarify...
Hydrometer is a general device description. Usually when you get one, it can measure all kinds of scales of hydration vs density (oil in water, milk in water, calcium in water, acid in water etc). These require different calibration schedule that is based on temperature or atmospheric conditions.
Salometer (sometimes called salimeter or salinity meter) does the same thing, but it is only tuned to check one thing: salt gravity in water. Nothing else. Typically it will include the entire useful scale of salt gravity in water - from 0% to 26% which is fully saturated.
One more comment:
The aquarium hydrometer device in the link you posted would not work for cheesemaking. It only goes up to 40 PPT which is 4% (makes sense because the highest you would go in an aquarium setting 3.5%-3.8% salt - to mimic seawater). Also, when shopping around you will find some refractometers or brix meters (they measure the concentration of sugars) which also double up as salometers. These snazzy devices look very cool and are deadly accurate. They have an eyepiece and you only put a tiny amount of sample brine or syrup in them and hold them against the light. DO NOT be tempted to get these. First off, they only go to 100 PPT which is 10% salt. Secondly, some of them need to be calibrated to temperature.
The device I suggested is really idiot proof and will measure reliably any brine at any temperature and never needs any calibration or maintenance. Worth the $15
Yoav, they're exactly the same. A salometer is a hydrometer that has a salinity scale on it, standardized to measurements at about room temp. In fact, it's perfectly acceptable to use a regular beer/wine hydrometer (you know, those cheap $8 dealies) for measuring your brine strength. They both measure SG. No difference, except that piece of paper they slip inside that has the graduations on it. We even had a thread about this.
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2081.msg19148.html#msg19148 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2081.msg19148.html#msg19148)
[edit] You beat me to it. :). Still, I see nothing wrong with using a regular bulb type wine/beer hydrometer. Laminate the chart I posted and put by one's measuring station, or memorize the equivalencies, and works just as well. Or, alternatively, get an electronic salinity meter (nothing like having to calibrate two probes when making cheese :P )
Not the one I've seen Pav. they have 3 or 4 different scales on them and instructions on how to calibrate them. I have a simple one that only does salt levels and shows a % scale on one side and Baumé gravity scale on the opposite side. As I said a salometer is one of a million different types of hydrometers. Hydrometer is a very generic name. Sure, you can check salinity with a device made to measure alcohol, sugar or acid, but if all you are doing is checking salt - get the device that has the salt numbers on it and don't convert/calibrate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinometer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinometer)
Quotea salinometer often consist of an ec meter or hydrometer and some means of converting those readings to a salinity reading.
Yep, yep, totally agree. KISS principle applies :) Just that I've been making beer and wine and liqueurs much longer than cheese, and when I needed to measure brine salinity levels, I didn't want to buy yet another type of hydrometer (I think I have 5 already), so I repurposed one and use a conversion chart. Others who have multiple interests might be in a similar situation. I love the simplicity of the salometer.
And remember, you are talking to a guy who would rather throw away great cheese than having to take a few minutes to calibrate at a pH meter ;)
Oh, if only there was a pH meter as simple as salometer. (and don't get me started on acidometers and Dornic acidity degrees. I have been working with old literature that is pre pH meters and have to convert all those °D to pH. Drives me nuts)
In less words a salometer is the same as the hydrometer both are made to measure the specific gravity of a liquid the only thing that changes is the little piece of paper in the center. ;)
lol, oh the joys of tech. Do you have a good system for the conversion? I created a decent best-fit formula based on a statistical analysis of common curves so I can use all the French recipes I have from the obscure old school books. Gives me a good idea of what's happening in the background, just plug it in an Excel spreadsheet and go.
Have you tried using the classic whey titration approach? You might like that better than a meter... no calibration.
:o sorry linuxboy I got lost you sound exactly like my brother that is a linux lover too, I think is something with linux :D
Hide your children! Lock up the wimmin! It warps the mind I tells ya! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I've been using it since the early days of the pre 1.0 kernel. This was back when dirt was new, and the dead sea wasn't even sick yet.
You kill me Pav. 1.0 kernel? Reminds me of this moment from
Being John Malkovich - one of my favorite movies:
QuoteDr. Lester: Don't toy with Floris, Schwartz.
Craig Schwartz: Oh, no.
Dr. Lester: If I was 80 years younger, I'd box your ears.
Craig Schwartz: I wasn't toying with her sir, I wouldn't.. pardon me, just how old are you, sir?
Dr. Lester: 105. Carrot juice, lots of it. I swear, sometimes it's not worth it. I XXXX orange. I have to XXXX sitting down like a goddamn girlie-girl every fifteen minutes.
I don't have a decent conversion chart yet. The two measurements don't seem to go in a steady curve, but if you have such excel, you are my hero.
Quote from: linuxboy on August 03, 2011, 07:13:55 PMHave you tried using the classic whey titration approach? You might like that better than a meter... no calibration.
Is that where you put a sample together with two chemicals and it changes color and then you compare the color to a chart and it points out to a number? Something like that? Is that how it works?
My brother started using REDHAT and he used to spend the hole day compiling the kernel to make linux works how he wants it. Now we are using UBUNTU for our servers and I love it I'm not as good as my brother but I can move around.
I love Ubantu. We used it in a previous startup I was involved in
Sorry to interrupt the alternative OS dialogue....
By the bye, I also enjoyed Ubuntu in a previous situation. Excellent deployment.
Hey, the times I need to check salinity level does not warrant the purchase of a special dipstick if I already have a suitable workaround. Back when I was brewing I acquired an SG hydrometer. With linuxboy's spreadsheet, I'm in! Thanks for that, linuxboy.
KISS.
-Boofer-
did linuxboy give you the spreadsheet, how can I get it???? ;)
Please linuxboy!!!!
Wow this thread is way off topic, pictures of my USD14 salometer here, (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2081.0.html) if anyone wants they can use the color bands on pictures #3 & 4 to work out the cross conversion scale for a standard hygrometer.
Quote from: morfeo on August 04, 2011, 12:53:09 AM
did linuxboy give you the spreadsheet, how can I get it???? ;)
Please linuxboy!!!!
It was on the previous page of this thread. Brine spreadsheet (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2081.msg19148.html#msg19148).
-Boofer-