Okay, let's try this again. This was scheduled to be a Reblochon. At least the milk and cream were envisioned as that until linuxboy (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6845.msg48713.html#msg48713) came into the picture.
This is my third Tomme effort. Along with the 2 gallons of Trader Joe's organic milk (pasteurized...not homogenized), 1 gallon of 2% Darigold P&H milk, and 1 gallon of Darigold P&H whole milk, I added the pint of cream (not ultrapasteurized) I had bought for the Reblochon. This should be interesting.
- MM100 1/4 tsp
- thermophilic 1/8 tsp
- SR3 1/8 tsp
- KL71 1/8 tsp
- geo 1/16 tsp
- CACL2 1 tsp in distilled water
- dry calf rennet 1/8 tsp in distilled water, when it's time to stir in
Calibrated my ExStick. Checked milk: 6.85. Yes, Sailor, I know, I know.... I proceeded anyway.
Once again, as expected, it took three hours to reach 6.48, at which time I added the CACL2 and rennet. Once again, my floc time was 5 minutes. Really? Yes, really. I've been here before. I thought my use of raw milk in the past was a contributor to fast flocking (spelling?) because of additional factors inherent in the raw milk. I also believe that waiting until the pH actually comes "into view", where I would like for it to be, assists the rennet action.
Everything went fairly well. I cut at 6.42. Temp was 88F. The extra cream was a bit of a nuisance, creating a bit of a skin on the surface, along with the oil slick and little floating fat globules. I pressed it in the pot, under whey, then transferred the pot to the Dutch press where I hung my 3/4 lb crescent wrench with 2 pulleys. From that combination I delivered 22 lbs to the cheese. The whey that leaked out at the mold follower on the top measured 4.68. I placed in the whey-brine that measured 5.15. It comes out of the brine tonight at 8:00PM after 12 hours.
-Boofer-
Interesting on the Organic Valley cream ...I called them and asked about their products, and they told me that the only product they had that was not ultra-pasteurized was their 'cream on top' whole milk. Maybe they were only thinking of milk, not cream? Maybe the labeling isn't accurate on the cream? Hmmm....
Brian
We must be on the same wave length this weekend, Boof--I also made Reblochon. I used 2 gallons of milk and 1 quart of cream (both raw milk). Generous pinch of both GEO and Flora Danica and TA060. Less than 1/2 tsp. of Rennet--flocced at 15 minutes and let go to total rennet time of 60. Cut to 1/2" and let sit 5 minutes. Cut again down to pea size and stirred another 5 minutes. Rose temp to 91 degrees and stirred another 20 minutes. Drew off whey to level of curd and molded. Set molds into whey for 15 minutes--flipped and returned to whey for 15 minutes. Took out of whey, flipped and removed cheesecloth. Applied 2 pounds of weight to each 1 pound of cheese and let sit for 2 hours. Removed weights and let cheese sit overnight. Brined for two hours, dried and aged at 50 degrees RH 90 for 60 days. Wash with brine mixture of B.linens and salt every other day for first 2 weeks. Turn daily and allow it out its box every other day for at least a half hour to allow the b.linens to grow,.
Brie, how lyrical. Who'd a thought one could find prose in a recipe?
Thanks for that.
-Boofer-
Boofer, about the dry calf rennet - if I use 1/16th tsp on three gallons raw milk, I get floc around 9-10 minutes. All my more recent make sheets now say things like "scant 1/16th" with a floc 12-13 minutes, or my personal favorite, "scant SCANT 1/16th" with 15-16 minute flocs.
I suspect that a "scant SCANT 1/16th" is more like one-and-a-half 1/32nds. I'm starting to use less and less now, because as Sailor mentioned happens to him, now that the cows are getting back on grass it's starting to take slightly less and less rennet to get to where I want to be. Not a huge difference yet, but I'm keeping an eye on it.
Yes, I've gone down to 1/16 tsp on previous makes and it did stretch the floc time a bit. I could probably have done that here.
I believe there is a complex relationship with:
- rennet:
- type (dry calf, liquid calf, mucor, etc.)
- amount
- how long it has been hydrated (if dry)
- milk
- pH of the milk
I do believe the lower pH (higher acidity) accelerates/enhances the rennet efficacy.
-Boofer-
Quote from: tananaBrian on April 11, 2011, 12:38:33 AM
Interesting on the Organic Valley cream ...I called them and asked about their products, and they told me that the only product they had that was not ultra-pasteurized was their 'cream on top' whole milk. Maybe they were only thinking of milk, not cream? Maybe the labeling isn't accurate on the cream? Hmmm....
Brian
All other creams I find
are labeled ultra-pasteurized. I would expect that if this was that case, they would be required to label it accordingly. I take them at their label (re:word).
-Boofer-
Hi Boofer,
Are you sure that the Trader Joe's milk in the picture is non-homogenized?
My Trader Joe only carries non-homogenized milk in half-gallon and it is clearly labeled as cream-top. The one in your picture looks like the regular milk I buy for my every day needs.
Boy! Gettin' beat up on the milk topic, eh? I think it's because so many are so disappointed with the milk industry nowadays and how they are destroying our 'food'. I would say that if your milk formed a proper curd, that THAT is the best evidence that it was not heat treated above 170-ish (F), which means it is not ultra-pasteurized (marked ultra-pasteurized or UHT) or high-temperature-short-time pasteurized (marked 'pasteurized' or HTST). I've heard rumor that manufactures don't have to say anything but 'pasteurized' on milk, regardless of which method and at what temperature and I suspect that is true as well ...some of the Organic Valley milks only say 'pasteurized' but their rep on the phone told me that ALL of their milk is ultra-pasteurized except for their "pasteurized-only cream on top whole milk" product. Some dairies (most?) aren't exactly forthcoming about their processes either, like the Matanuska Creamery here in Alaska ...on my first phone call, they told me that their milk was pasteurized at 170 F and that they use the exact same milk that they sell for making their own selection of cheeses. 3 tries in a row later, all different production dates, all the milk that I tested only created UP/UHT type mush for curds ...useless. Upon calling them again, they said that their pasteurization temperature can vary from "165 F to well over 180 F". The truth comes out! Well, part of it anyway. They never would give me a maximum temperature ...and I know darn well that when they make their own cheese, that they use milk pasteurized at the bottom end of this range, so yes, technically it is the same milk as what they sell ...part of it anyway.
Now that I've mentioned the milk bandits, I may as well mention the GOOD milks here in Alaska: Lucerne brand at Carrs/Safeway appears to curd consistently and properly so its pasteurization temperature must be at the lower end, and Northern Lights Dairy in Delta Junction makes an excellent 145 F vat-pasteurized product. Local cow shares are a good deal too at $4/gal for raw milk, or $5/gal delivered. Now that the local stores are one by one raising the cost of a gallon of milk to nearly $4/gallon, those cow shares are looking better and better ...most of those cows live on locally grown feeds and are less subject to the food-price issues that are occurring everywhere else right now (wheat up 80% during 2010, food average up over 30% from beginning of 2010 until now and expected to be up by 54% by the end of 2011, etc ...it's OK ...Bernanke said the CPI is at 0% to 1% depending on which quarter you look at ...rising prices are figments of our imagination).
Regardless, the results speak for themselves and your tomme looks great ...your milk was FINE.
Brian
Brian -
Not beating up anything at all...
I just wanted Boofer to confirm that it was cream-top...because if his milk is cream-top then I might find the same gallon size in my local Trader Joe that sometimes carries a full advertised cream top brand but most of the time does not.
I am quite blind when it comes to US labels and I wanted to know if I might have missed something. Since I am a newcomer to this country, I have few references when it comes to shopping brands.
I did not mean to offend anyone. Sorry if I did!
Quote from: tananaBrian on April 11, 2011, 06:58:58 PM
Regardless, the results speak for themselves and your tomme looks great ...your milk was FINE.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but
I sure feel better. Great dissertation on the evil milk producers.
You should consider yourself very fortunate. Wow, $4 a gallon for raw milk. Try $9.99 a gallon! Needless to say, I don't use much of that milk.
Quote from: Helen on April 11, 2011, 07:37:02 PM
I just wanted Boofer to confirm that it was cream-top...
To be quite honest, Helen, I didn't even look. The milk, as you can see, comes in an opaque white jug. I accepted that it was not homogenized or it would have been labeled as such. It could have been. I think somewhere on the forum linuxboy recommended Trader Joe's milk once upon a time.
The milk was combined with two gallons of Darigold milk and it seemed to set with no problem...5 minutes! If it hadn't gelled I would have been concerned. As it is, I am pleased and would use it again. If I do use it again, I will pay attention to whether it's creamline.
-Boofer-
Thanks, Boofer!
Have you decided what kind of rind you will be aiming for?
I look forward to more pictures!!
Quote from: BooferI think somewhere on the forum linuxboy recommended Trader Joe's milk once upon a time.
That's interesting, and good to know, Boof. Any idea where this discussion might be, on the forum? Pav?
My one raw milk source is currently $6/gallon for a Jersey/Holstein blend, and 11 a gallon for straight Jersey.
I recommended it for us, Boofer. Regular, non-organic TJ and Wholefoods 356 brand milk. For people in the Northwest, specifically here in the Puget Sound, who have no other option than store milk. I said it was the best, consistent milk around here from the grocery store. Whole Foods and TJ around here get their milk whitelabeel from Sunshine Dairy in Portland. So for $2.50/gal (whole foods), you can get milk that will actually form a half-decent curd, and usually even stretches for mozz, and the flavor is acceptable.
The other ones are hit and miss. Dairygold, Sno-fresh, etc. Sometimes OK, sometimes not. You have to look at the plant where the milk is bottled. Boofer, if you can make it to Tenino or Enumclaw, there's much better milk out there for $5-$8/gal.
Just saw the thread, interestingly enough. From there, also saw your link to standardizing milk - thanks, Pav.
Quote from: Helen on April 12, 2011, 12:11:25 AM
Thanks, Boofer!
Have you decided what kind of rind you will be aiming for?
I look forward to more pictures!!
Yes . . . inquiring minds want to know!
Quote from: linuxboy on April 12, 2011, 01:11:20 AM
Boofer, if you can make it to Tenino or Enumclaw, there's much better milk out there for $5-$8/gal.
That looks to be about 30 miles to Enumclaw for me. A little further south to Tenino. In any case, within reach. Any recommendations in Enumclaw? Tenino?
I see Meadowwood Organics (http://www.meadowwoodorganics.com/) in Enumclaw and a slew of others here (http://warawmilk.com/).
Quote from: Brandnetel on April 12, 2011, 04:38:19 AM
Quote from: Helen on April 12, 2011, 12:11:25 AM
Have you decided what kind of rind you will be aiming for?
I look forward to more pictures!!
Yes . . . inquiring minds want to know!
No, I haven't decided yet. The clock is ticking. It's drying in its minicave at room temperature (65-70F) now.
Yeah, you
know I like to post pics. They're coming. I snapped pics of my second Esrom this morning as I wrapped it in the cheese paper for a little sustained affinage in the big fridge. Today marks Day 60. Interesting brick of cheese. It really feels and looks like a brick, but I wasn't aiming for brick cheese. ???
-Boofer-
Flip it.
*runs away*
Quote from: Boofer on April 12, 2011, 01:40:21 PM
Enumclaw? Tenino?
Where the heck do you folks live, Narnia? :-)
Quote from: Helen on April 11, 2011, 07:37:02 PM
Brian -
Not beating up anything at all...
I just wanted Boofer to confirm that it was cream-top...because if his milk is cream-top then I might find the same gallon size in my local Trader Joe that sometimes carries a full advertised cream top brand but most of the time does not.
I am quite blind when it comes to US labels and I wanted to know if I might have missed something. Since I am a newcomer to this country, I have few references when it comes to shopping brands.
I did not mean to offend anyone. Sorry if I did!
Maybe I used the wrong terminology. "Offensive" never entered my mind ...I was just surprised and found it interesting to see 2 different questions on someone's milk in a single thread. As far as I can see, the results do speak for themselves and I would personally chalk up Trader Joe's milk, of the kind used here, as an acceptable choice until proven otherwise (who knows when a plant will change its process or how much process control they have?).
Brian
Quote from: Brandnetel on April 12, 2011, 05:02:37 PM
Quote from: Boofer on April 12, 2011, 01:40:21 PM
Enumclaw? Tenino?
Where the heck do you folks live, Narnia? :-)
Well, no, but we do live close to the Emerald City... :)
Quote from: tananaBrian on April 12, 2011, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: Helen on April 11, 2011, 07:37:02 PM
I did not mean to offend anyone. Sorry if I did!
"Offensive" never entered my mind
Okay, everyone to your corners for a timeout. I've seen nothing here that I would deem offensive. Just valid observations and opinion. Now, let's get back to
cheese.
-Boofer-
Well now, this is interesting. If I was making a Stilton or something along those lines, I'd be in Fat City. Hey, where'd all this blue come from all of a sudden? I'm not making any so there's no question of cross-contamination in my cave. Very curious. I guess it likes the extra cream.
I knocked it back, but I was really surprised by that. I still haven't decided the most favorable rind development course to take yet.
-Boofer-
The clock is ticking . . . . . :-)
Quote from: Brandnetel on April 18, 2011, 11:32:48 AM
The clock is ticking . . . . . :-)
Yeah, but how 'bout that lovely shade of blue? Kinda makes you want to lean back and gaze into the cheese imagining little poofy clouds of . . . geo, of course! (followed by a gorgeous b. linens sunset! :) )
Yeah, yeah, yeah...but it has only been a week or so. I'm still pondering. I was considering Brie's exploration into the honey & sea salt, but I have decided that's a little too "out there" for me right now. I don't think it's a proven rind process yet and I don't want to guinea pig there (I've got enough of that in my own cave! ::) ).
Oh, decisions...decisions. What to do?!
-Boofer-
After my tomme de honey experiment,I would suggest washing that puppy in vinegar and salt.
Done that! I'm on the case.
Starting to get a little yellow showing as of this morning's washing.
-Boofer-
After some contemplation I am considering a Gewürztraminer wash for this one. I don't know if that's appropriate, but I get the feeling that the field is wide open for rind development. The wine should help it develop its character.
I'd like to get linuxboy's or Francois's opinion on washing with wine. Most, if not all, of the wines sold in the US contain sulfites. Wouldn't this kill the bacterial strains, yeasts, and/or molds on my rind? Is there a way that I can do it effectively? If it is possible, can you provide any guidance on wine alone, wine & brine, or wine & water?
-Boofer-
There are others out there, I am sure, but I have attached info about some of the cheeses that are given a wine treatment during their affinage. They use some unnamed red wine, Sauternes, and Muscato. The Muscato is a little confusing because it makes sense to limit the sweetness in whatever wine I eventually decide to try. But this seems to work for the folks using the Muscato.
At this point, still washing with brine and researching....
-Boofer-
Hi Boofer,
I washed my tomme with white wine (after it got a nice b.linens bloom) and I really enjoyed how it subtly affected the taste.
Thanks for attaching the articles. That will make for a nice reading.
Thanks for posting those cheeses--gives me something new to try! Keep us posted on your tomme.
After consulting with linuxboy on wines in the wash process, shopping for a white wine to use with this cheese, and opening several bottles for a taste test ;) ... I decided to go with Mondavi Moscato.
I wasn't sure how exactly to go about this so I decided I needed a light brine plus the wine. I dissolved 2 tsp salt in 11 ounces of water and added 21 ounces of the wine to make a wash of 32 ounces. Each day I'll wipe the cheese with this wash. Uncharted territory. No map. No compass.
-Boofer-
It is common to use a sweet wine? moscato is low on alcohol (4-6%) and usually high in residual sugar.
Quote from: Tomer1 on April 24, 2011, 08:05:16 PM
It is common to use a sweet wine? moscato is low on alcohol (4-6%) and usually high in residual sugar.
This is 10.1% and, no, not so sweet as others I have enjoyed.
Did you see my earlier post (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6864.msg49431.html#msg49431) about the Tomme cheeses washed with sweet wines?
-Boofer-
Is it carbonated?
I have yet to see such a high muscato\asti style wine.
Quote from: Tomer1 on April 25, 2011, 08:00:38 AM
Is it carbonated?
I have yet to see such a high muscato\asti style wine.
No, this wine is not carbonated.
The rind development is progressing nicely. This is encouraging since it is an experimental process.
-Boofer-
Here are a couple pics from May 2nd and the May 5th. The captions speak for me. What was I...blind? Overly optimistic?
Not to worry, I washed the rind faithfully with my wine wash and smeared all over. Then I turned the wheel over and it appears to have healed. Hooyah!! :)
You gotta stay alert. Don't doze off in the middle of your rind-washing. ;)
Otherwise, it would appear that the wine-wash experiment is proceeding favorably.
-Boofer-
I stoped washing my first tomme after 5-6 weeks because when I washed it one morning I noticed a nasty thin crack developing which was ashame since I it growing some nice pc on the sides and started showing orangy linens on the top\bottom.
Why would a cheese crack given that it was kept in the upper 90% of RH and it was firmly supported and handled?
I waxed it,
Better luck next time.
Tomer, sorry about your crack. I don't know why the cheese would crack given that the RH was adequate. The only obvious explanation is that the rind got too dry. :o
The pics above show the rind cracked on the side closest to the vented lid. My solution was to smear it, keep it moist, rotate it top-to-bottom and front-to-rear. I washed just a few minutes ago and the crack has pretty much disappeared. The RH is at 88% (53F) per linuxboy's guidance. Seems to be going okay...for now.
-Boofer-
It looked like my grand fix for the crack wasn't going to get the job done...so I vacuum-bagged it.
Here's hoping the time that it got with the rind development will be sufficient to develop good flavor and texture.
-Boofer-
"The only obvious explanation is that the rind got too dry."
Thats unlikly since I was washing it every other day.
Maybe mechanical stress of somesort ,I switched between different mattings during the time trying to find something that will give good air flow so the bottom will "work" aswell.
I was doing the same, mine cracked, and it looked pretty dry. The readings were 52F/88% during that time.
-Boofer-
Okay, time to sample this Moscato mystery....
Smells good. Cuts well...slight crumbling around the edges. The crumbs are amazing. Wow, I'll do something like this again. There was a pretty fair amount of moisture in the bag: whey, wine residue, spent cultures.
This may find its way onto the cheese platter for my Dad's 88th birthday this Saturday.
-Boofer-
Wow, looks interesting! Need more detail on the overall taste of the paste and the impact of the wine, please please?
Well, this cheese has a little more age on it.
There was perhaps a tablespoon of moisture in the bag when I opened it. Upon cutting the cheese, it fairly crumbled and refused to slice properly. Seems like that was always the case, but it never improved. The flavor is still good, but the cheese crumbles very easily. It also doesn't melt very well.
This is one of the last cheeses I made with inferior industrial milk before moving to raw & creamline milk. I think that, combined with a few technique problems, may have contributed to the crumbles and low meltability.
I would like to try another wine-washed/enhanced Tomme down the road...with good milk. I think the Moscato was a good choice. Perhaps a Gewurztraminer would be worth a try as well. I had combined the wine with a little salt to form a light brine which I used to wash this cheese.
-Boofer-
It's nice to have a few cheeses around that don't melt well so they don't get lost during cooking and you have distinct chunks to bite into. :P