So on Sunday I bought a gallon of raw goat milk and proceeded to make an attempt at moldy chevre. I used 1/4 tsp MM100 and 2/5 drop of double strength veg rennet as well as 1/8 tsp Niege(p.candidum). Ladled most of the curd into molds(6) about 30 hours later,(late class) with the remaining curd drained overnight in cheesecloth. The bag drained curd I hand molded(3) and salted and have been drying since Tuesday. The molded cheeses came out of the molds Wednesday night (I think) and have been drying and salting those. As of yesterday morning, the bag drained cheeses had an ever so slight pinkish hue to them. I have continued salting and making sure they were dry. (even so far as paper towel- humidity was high yesterday) Today those seem less pink, and the mold formed cheeses are starting to fuzz up, but I see tiny hints of pink on them as well.
So I am sort of at a loss as to what I should do. Continue drying? Move them to the cave? Separate the 2 different cheeses even though it was all the same milk/batch? I bought cheese wrap, but do not know at what point should I wrap these...
Ack!
Sorry, I used the search function until 2am, but I can't seem to find all the answers to my questions...
Interesting.
Does it look like the one on https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=3914.0 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=3914.0) thread?
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x214/Mighty-Jesse/cheese/cambloom.jpg)
Not quite that pink, but similar... more pronounced on the sides. I gave the pink ones a good pat down and salting last night and today they appear more of a cream color. The mold formed cheeses were just starting to fuzz up, whereas the other ones are 75% coated in the mold now.
Semi lactic cheese always needs to be pre-drained in a cheesecloth or strainer before being molded. The pink mold is usually sign if over-moisture condition and having not pre-drained them you must be getting too much whey. This could also be a sign of under-salting. Salt not only kills pathogenic molds but also accelerates the drainage and drying by ways of osmosis. Another reason could be that the cheese is not drying/draining on a mesh matt that is open enough and lets lots of air in and whey out -from the bottom.
Do not introduce paper towels to the cheese, you will contaminate it. Let it drain and dry in a cool place. If it's drying in a box, take it out of the box and dry it on the lid (much faster). Hopefully you will have enough of this neige blooming soon (neige is a quick-growing strain of PC) and it will take over and out-compete the other mold. Add salt if you think you can. I would also suggest that you use a tiny pinch of Geo on your next batch. It will de-acidify the surface, accelerate and strengthen the growth of PC and create an initial rind. It also helps with the texture of the finished cheese.
It appears that the neige has taken hold. The cheeses are all fluffed up and white. I had been drying them on a rack, but have moved them into mini cave boxes on egg crate about 1.5 inches off the bottom of the container for plenty of air space. I don't have a dedicated cheese fridge yet (tho, my other one might as well be!) so they will be aged at a lower temp than ideal, but I'm ok with that. For now...
So far as the Geo goes, is it still necessary if I tried again with ash? Or do they both do the same thing so far as the acidity goes?
So for the pre-draining, how long does one pre drain? Why do none of the recipes state that?
Great! This is time for you to tap the cheese! Lightly flatten the white powder as it grows by tapping it and do that all over the cheese so your hand will transfer bacteria evenly throughout and your mold will grow faster and more dense. Also helps prevent skin slip.
Ash would not replace Geo. It stabilizes acidity mainly by absorbing the acid as oppose to geo, which changes the pH by way of culturing. Geo also contributes to the proteolytic and lipolitic activity in the cheese - the breakdown and modification of proteins and fats. The protein breakdown is responsible to the smoothness of the texture. Fat breakdown is responsible to the sharpness of the flavor.
Depends on your curd and cheese, drain anywhere from 3 hour to 12 hours (play with this and see how you like it best). This will really improve the final quality of the cheese and will also make it more firm in the beginning so you can take it out of the mold within 18 to 36 hours of molding. That's how you get Crottin that becomes harder as it ages as opposed to ammoniated and soft/gooey. It will also make the mold take hold faster which is important in a cheese that only needs 10-14 days to ripen fully.
Ok, so which geo should I get? I am thinking middle of the road with geo 15?
This is one needful and addictive little hobby.... :)
Not to contradict my friend Yoav, but...( :)) I make this cheese quite a lot during the season from both goat and sheep milk, and have never pre-drained in cheesecloth. I let the curd set for 12-14 hours. I usually drain in the molds for 24 hours, remove from the molds and salt, then allow to air dry for 6-12 hours.
I do agree about the pinch of Geo. I wonder if your long set time contributed to extra moisture in the curd.
Like camembert, etc., keeping any visible moisture in the aging container wiped up is critical in preventing the dreaded slip-skin.
These are great cheeses, as they can be eaten with a little or a lot of aging.
Good luck.
Pam
Quote from: iratherfly on April 30, 2011, 06:50:50 AM
Ash would not replace Geo. It stabilizes acidity mainly by absorbing the acid
Ash is alkeline, basically its the baking soda of pre chemical\scientific\industrial revolution so it nueterlizes acid by means of chemical reaction.
I saw a survival doco about how WW2 norwigien comando unit sent to sabotage hitler's heavy water facility having to spend the freezing winter in the freezing alps they had to make ash by burning pine charcoals to nuetrilize the oxalic acid of the herbs they gathered to survive since they run out of deer jerky.
Thanks for the pre draining tip yoav!
I had expirienced few uneven draining despite regular flipping which caused odd shapes in times.
Here are the cheeses...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_HJU8MRsorQY/Tby1A5zBa0I/AAAAAAAAFRs/dGWmS3Q_GAA/s720/DSC_0003-1.JPG)
They look good so far, hope they turn out the way you want them to.
They look great (though the typical shape of cheese that wasn't pre-drained; at least not enough. Lots of "dents" and they seem to have lots of moisture in them). The mold is very nicely taking over. The yellowish color under the white bloom is geo (you didn't have to put it in, it could be naturally in the milk or in one of your cultures).
I suggest that you tap and rub them lightly with clean hands, one after the other after the other; This will help create a faster, more even and dense bloom of higher quality. Do not wrap these.
What sort of mold did you use for this shape?
Most of them were done in french goat cheese molds flipped multiple times but the two really funny looking ones in the top right corner were hand shaped without a mold. Those were the pre-drained ones. I tried to do a meatball type shape, but it didn't work, so I made rough patties and that is how they turned out.
Well, I couldn't stand it anymore. I ate one! I took the most misshapen one and it was delicious. Since it was pretty lopsided I figured it would ripen odd and it was a good one to sacrifice. It was soo good! Dumb luck or something...
I am going to take another in to one of my chefs at school tomorrow for a second opinion. Then I am going to be good and try to wait the rest of them out till the paste is uniform. It is gonna be hard though...
;D
wow, they look fabulous! glad to hear they are tasting good too. Would love to see a pic of one cut open when next you try one. Very inspiring, looks like nice mold coverage.
I am going to try to wait another week before I eat any more, but I will definitely take photos and post them. I think it is very helpful to see.
Finally found a raw goat milk dairy local to me (I have been trucking milk 4 hours from Maine) and will be making this cheese again tomorrow. I figure that will distract me from the others a little. Something else to hover over.
The nice thing about these is that they really don't need too much ripening time. Do a rocamadour/cabecu size and it would only need 10 days or so.
Where do you go to school? Is that a culinary school?
Yes, I am in culinary school at Le Cordon Bleu in Boston. They used to do some cheesemaking as part of the curriculum and I guess it is getting ready to be started up again.
Bummed about the raw milk lead I had. I had called her yesterday and she knew I was buying for cheese. She sold me 5 day old milk that was on it's last "sell by" day.
That was a 2 tripper.... first, and last.
Guess it is time to start working with raw cow milk...
Quote from: mainelycheese on May 05, 2011, 04:41:37 AM
Finally found a raw goat milk dairy local to me ....
So jealous! There is a raw milk co-op that delivers to NYC but on a very constrained schedule that often precludes me using them. So it's either that or a day trip out of town to secure raw milk, and I have only found cow's milk so far . . . . you lucky Mainer!
You in NYC? I can show you where I get really good milk. Where in the city are you?
I tried the home delivery raw milk co-op (Udder Milk). I was not impressed with the milk quality, they keep the identity of the farmers quite a mystery and you would not know what cow breed it came from and what was their feed, or when it was milked. (though it was nice having it delivered). My order was followed up by a call from a suspiciously strange women who had bizarre conspiracy theories about the government, milk and especially how cheese bacterias may be obtained from innocent human beings (which is why she stays away from dairy products). At that point I heard enough and went back to the fantastic local organic grass-fed non-homogenize milk from Sky Top, Tonjes, Albert's Choice, Oak Knoll and Evans Farmhouse. (there are other local brands such as Milk Thistle and Ronnybrook, but their milk is more expensive, package is wasteful and the quality isn't nearly as good)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_HJU8MRsorQY/TdBsNi1vtOI/AAAAAAAAFaY/YkGgNj5mE1E/s720/DSC_0004.JPG)
Here is the last one, taken today. I ate the others. It seems I am a lousy wait and see type. I was hoping the paste would be more uniform, but given they are aging in regular fridge temps, I am not surprised.
The second batch I made with pre-draining is so different it isn't even like it is the same cheese. They are hard, only partially covered in mold. *shrugs* I pre-drained the curds for 1 hour. This is a different milk from a different farm, herd, feed, etc. though.
It looks yummy! I've actually been (kind of) obsessed with making semi-lactic cheeses lately. I got to try some really good ones on vacation, when I got home, I couldn't wait to taste mine. Of course, I thought mine was good, but I was still critical of them, "Hmm too salty? I was hoping for a bit more pungent smell. At least it's creamy & not chalky, right?" (talking to my hubby while we're critiquing the cheese). I handled mine quite a bit, this was before reading this (thanks Yoav, for indirectly giving me a hint, too! ;D) as it was the only way to get it out of the container I had them aging in. I made sure I touched them in different areas, too, so my fingers wouldn't dent the same spot, causing a "wonky" side. Well now, I will also tap them! This forum is awesome that, in reading hints given to others, you will also find that it directly applies to your situation. ;)
I'm really liking the almost-instant gratification of these cheeses, apart from the smell, too. I'm taking my kids to visit a friend of a friend's sheep farm sometime this week, I'm hoping to wheedle some milk from him!
fr more pungant smell acidify them longer, drain them less and age them slightly more. This way they have more acid and you can age them longer with more moisture content so that they don't dry on you on day 21. Just be careful not to go crazy with humidity so that you won't get slip skin. Now that you have the technique down for these, just play a little with these variables so adjust the taste and aroma to your liking. Aren't these awesome and so easy to make?
How much "longer" should I be looking at, ideally? I'm alone in the house who likes my cheeses a bit on the pungent side (don't even really mind the stinky ones, either!)
What do you do now? 12 hours at 75F? You can do 24 hours at 72F and put a little bit less starter culture. Heck, you can even do 36 hours but keep adjusting the temp to 68F-70F range and use 1/4 to 1/2 of the starter culture you usually use. Keep experimenting until you find your favorite spot. Even when you find it, remember that it will change in the season as goat's milk changes.
One more suggestion is to pre-inoculate the milk. It's an old French technique meant to give pasteurized milk the feeling and flavor/aroma of raw milk and really focus its flavors. To pre-inoculate, you will ripen your milk while it is still cold, keeping it refrigerated for 18-24 hours until cheesemaking (so yes, delay cheesemaking by one day). The next day when you are ready to make the cheese, heat up the milk and keep it at cheesemaking temp, then inoculate your bacteria as you usually would and make the goat's cheese as you normally do. Some cheesemakers wait 30 minutes from ripening bacteria to rennet/CalCl2 (instead of setting them together at the same time) so that the new bacteria gets to work before coagulation begins. That is because the pre-inoculation bacteria is not the same as your starter culture. Traditionally pre-inoculation is done with Flora Danica. Then for the cheesemaking - use whatever you usually use (MM100?) This is a rather new technique for me which I only began using very recently so I can't give you the full report on the results yet, but maybe Pav or Francois can. (Though I know Francois can't stand Flora Danica...)