Hi there!
I made a gouda wheel with some CHN-22 culture fron CHR_Hansen some time ago. I noticed that when I removed the cheese from the press
to turn it over, it has become bigger & won't fit in properly. I had to cut some of it off in order for it to fit again.I noticedwhen I've cut a chunk off, that the cheese seems to have a crap load of tiny holes in it. Alot like that from an Aero Chocolate.It doesn't seem to have any piece that is solid. It seens like the culture is creating alot of gas inside. Any suggestions? I will post a pic tomorrow when it's a bit lighter.
This is what it looks like. It looks like a sponge, but has a solid structure to it & smeels just fine.
Were you baking bread the same day or used a tsp that is used to measure bread yeast?
Looks pretty and I like Aero chocolate!
As Gurkan says, does it also smell yeasty like bread when rising or homemade beer when foaming? Some ideas here (https://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-cheese-body-defects-mechanical-holes/).
Not at all. No bread or yeast or stuff like that. It doesn't have a yeasty or odd smell at all.
Actually, it smells like gouda should smell. The smell & taste has no problem, but it's just
odd that it foamed up. As I said, it's got a lot of small holes, but still has a firm texture.
This is a pic of the offcut. The original cheese is about 6kg & is waxed & ripening in the fridge.
I baught some other culture today. This culture is said to release minimum amounts of gas as I guess the one I used releases alot of gas. This is a multi product culture & I used it to make Maas/Amasi as well. If it's in the fermentation room & has a lid on, the containes sweels up to bursting point from all the gas & the product has a fizzy taste. But when in the fermentation room with no lid on, it comes out wonderful with a lovely taste.
I will post the pic of the 6kg cheese a bit later on today. After it was brined, it stopped rising & seems fine now. I'm curious to see what the end result will be & post it ok.
I wonder if it was my cheesecloth. I read on another article here that it should be washed seperately. Mine was washed together with the washing in the machine. Could this be it?
Cheesecloth could be a culprit, but if it's an odd culture that shouldn't be in there, I'd expect an odor of some kind. Look at cleanliness during all parts of the make. Also, how much culture did you add to how many gallons of milk? Just wondering if maybe you're getting an excessive action from the culture. I need to read up on cultures, but some put off varying amounts of gas. Just a thought.
I used exactly the right amount that the spec sheet said.
To keep my cheesecloth clean what I usually do is, as soon I finish pressing the cheese I washed by hand without soup or anything else, and them I boil it for 5 minutes and when is dry I just keep it on the fridge in a zip-bag. And when I going to use it again I boil it before pressing.
Sounds higenic. Nice
Small FYI, I just wash my cheese cloths in standard family clothes washing machine with other clothes and have never had your problem.
Gievn your problem appears thoroughly across the cheese during pressing phase I would think it points to something in the curds rather than something transposed from the cloth that I assume you are using in the mold.
I am going to make another gouda wheel this weekend. But with a different culture.I Suspect that the culture I used gives off too much gas.
If I make amasi with the same culture as I used for the shotgun cheese & keep the lid on during fermentation, the container swells up until it seems like it's going to burst.
The new culture apparently gives off more aroma & alot less gas. I used it to make amasi today & it was the thickest, best looking/tasting amasi I ever came across. Gonna use it this weekend.
I will post the results.
Gustav, which culture did you get for the new cheese and the amasi you did today?
Dave in CT
QuoteI wonder if it was my cheesecloth. I read on another article here that it should be washed seperately. Mine was washed together with the washing in the machine. Could this be it?
Absolutely! It needs to be clean clean clean. Never put in a laundry machine. There are trace amounts of very harsh laundry detergent which also include that bubbly hydrogen peroxide, + traces of lint and contaminants from other clothes ...underwear, kitchen towels etc. Instead, wash it right after cheesemaking in hot water. Use some light natural detergent as needed and wash all of it off as much as you can. Then, before the next cheesemaking put it in boiling water for 5-10 minutes. Alternatively, use reusable cloth.
Another cause could be the milk. Where do you get it? This could be related to feed of legumes or fermented stuff like silage. The gas buildup from their stomach continues to happen in your cheese.
Iratherfly, I understand your concern with harsh detergents, but hydrogen peroxide is not an issue. It is highly volatile, quickly breaking down to water and oxygen. It wouldn't leave a trace. Mmm, underwear contamination!!
Iratherfly-> We have our own dairy farm, so it's pasteurised jersey milk.
Dthelmers. You in Cape Town? Good.
I use the Cultures from Dairy Charade (Vandler Foods)
They produce their own cultures Here in Midrand.
They have 3 different ones.
* Choozit Probat 222 (Fizzy Flavour From Gas Production)
* Choozit MAO11/MAO14/MAO19 (Aromatic Flavour)
* Choozit RM32/RM34 (Aroma & Gas Production)
I used the RM32 For my amasi & it came out exellent with nou xtreme sour taser, And extremely THICK!
I got a Small 130l Box Freezer, replaced the thermostat with that of a stove(3-40 Celcius)
& Atached a 100w lightbulb. Takes about 5 min to regulate the right temp. This keeps the temp 100% constant for ever.
I use another boxz freezer for the cheese cave. I replaced the thermostat with that of a double door fridge, but it still got too cold. Then I plugged it to a timer switch that switches on 15min every 5 hours. That keeps it at 12 degrees celcius. I am wondering though if the water that creates inside the freezer & melts is going to create a problem? Any thoughts? It's not alot, but it's there.
Gustav,
My CT is Connecticut, part of the New England area of north east United States, though I was born and bred in the Hudson Valley region of New York State.
Dave in CT
I used the culture from Daity Charade(Vandler Foods)
I used their Choozit R32 culture.
They produce the cultures themselves. They got a real great variety of cultures. I'll post a pic of the Amasi tomorrow.
I thought you meant Cape Town here in South Africa. lol
Here is the spec sheet for the culture I use to make amasi & gouda.
Hope it helps.
Interesting. The same cultures as MM100 with the addition of Streptococcus thermophilus, the same mix of cultures that Pav uses for the Fresh Curds recipe at the Washington State Cheese Guild site. I just made several cheeses with a mix of MM101 and Thermo Type C, S. Thermophilus and L. helveticus, because I didn't have any straight S. thermophilus. I'm not finding this mix at any of the usual cheese suppliers here.
Dave in CT
These guys got some pretty cool stuff they sell. And the bio chemist lady that makes the cultures are very friendly & helps out alot on infi via e-mail.
Here are some other cultures I got as well.
I've just cut the cheese open and it looks a bit better. it's only 10 days old, but is starting to taste nice. Sealed it up again. Will wait till it matures nicely. :)
Quotethe same mix of cultures that Pav uses for the Fresh Curds recipe at the Washington State Cheese Guild site
Mine is actually L diacetylactis+S thermophilus. Best of flavor, body, and shelf life stability :). Similar concept, though, but they use O culture +D instead of straight D.
Big trend lately to adjunct many classic O, D, etc cultures with ST to decrease phage risk.
Right! I had forgotten that I substituted MM101 for the straight diacetylactis. I wish I had remembered to order it; I just got my TA in, so I'll use that instead of the Type C this weekend and observe the difference. Is there a difference in the acidification curve with straight D vs. MM100? Big or slight flavor difference?
Dave in CT
acidification with MM100= much faster
Flavor with LD = moderately more diacetyl.
Bigger aspect is the shelf life. MM100 has lower terminal pH unless you up the salt to 2.2% or so at a pH of 5.3-5.4. (normal salt in cheddared curd should be 1.6-1.8%)
This was my very first heese that I've made & I'm pleased to say it's a HUGE SUCCESS!!!
It's only 1 month old now, but I couldn't resist taking a peek inside & tasting it.
It has a extreamely nice creamy,moist texture & tastes rich. I'm surprised that it's that rich after only 1 month.
I've waxed the other half up again totry & age it to a year as I never tasted cheese that old before.
I'm struggling to get a nice clear photo tonight, but I'll post a photo of it tomottow.
Now to wait for the cheddars. I've made about 10kg of cheddar & 12 kg of gouda since I made this cheese.
Quote from: Gustav on May 06, 2011, 01:06:37 PM
I got a Small 130l Box Freezer, replaced the thermostat with that of a stove(3-40 Celcius)
& Atached a 100w lightbulb. Takes about 5 min to regulate the right temp. This keeps the temp 100% constant for ever.
I use another boxz freezer for the cheese cave. I replaced the thermostat with that of a double door fridge, but it still got too cold. Then I plugged it to a timer switch that switches on 15min every 5 hours. That keeps it at 12 degrees celcius. I am wondering though if the water that creates inside the freezer & melts is going to create a problem? Any thoughts? It's not alot, but it's there.
Gustav many members of the forum have tried to use a freezer as a cheese cave and they all have given up. The humidity is just too high, and as you have noticed the water droplets will find their way onto your cheese.
that's the funny thing. It's pretty cold here now, so I rerely switch the freezer on. It doesn't seem to make droplets though, and if it does, I just wipe it. I would like to ger a real cave like a wine cooler or something, but until then the freezer will have to do. But thanx for the advice though.
Do you think it will work better if I were to install an exrtacting fan on the top left of the freezer and a pulling fan on the right bottom to get some ventilation? That should help prevent droplets wouldn't it? i think alot of people aren't willing to drill or cut holes into their freezers though.
I think that in addition to regulating your humidity, you absolutely must regulate air movement (many people here, myself included take cheese out of the cave a few times a week to give it air, but it's not nearly as effective as a microorganism-full cave with a healthy dose of oxygen movement). The other thing you need is to give your microorganisms a place to call home. The food-grade plastic walls of the freezer aren't good enough.
For air movement, use a small computer CPU cooling fan. you just need some air movement. No need to go crazy or have a 2nd pulling fan. Too much air movement will carry out the microorganisms and moisture that you want to keep in. If you use a computer fan, a small ventilation hole may be enough to let air out. You may find out that you don't even need to let air out but just to circulate it in.
Another option is to insert a hose from an aquarium air pump right into the cave. This is something I have been doing for the past 10 days so it's still an experiment and I don't have final results, but unless I have some weird B.Linen invection in my cave it seems to be an incredible success. The cheese is responding incredibly well to it and blooming like a garden in the spring... In spite of bringing fresh air from the outside in, theambient humidity in the cave jumped 10% up. That is because the air hose circulates the moist air and creates a convection rather than letting moisture collect as water beads. I shut the door on my hose and it bends the magnetic door rubber seal slightly around the hose, opening just enough space for excess air to come out.
To give your microorganism a home-sweet-home line up that freezer chest with wood planks or bricks/terracotta/baking stone. (or combine). Create a porous cheese cellar, even if it's very small. My cave (wine fridge) came with wood shelving and I partially cover the shelves with straw. I have plans to actually line the interior with tiles or bricks in the coming weeks.
If you haven't done so yet, get one of those cheap digital combo thermometer/hydrometer devices. You mentioned in another post that you are in South Africa so here's a local South African example for 89 Rand http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/38774076/LCD_Digital_Temperature_Humidity_Meter_Hygrometer_Clock.html (http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/38774076/LCD_Digital_Temperature_Humidity_Meter_Hygrometer_Clock.html). You may be able to find it even cheaper. I have a bunch of these here. I use them in the warmest and coldest parts of the cave, and in the kitchen during cheesemaking and at the drying area when draining or drying cheese. Sometimes I also put them inside ripening boxes if needed. Get yourself a few.
As it so happens, I have both an airpump and cpu fan. Should I just mount the fan somewhere in there in order for it to circulate the air & add the air pump as well. Should there I leave a small opening on the door for some air to escape? Here are some pics of the freezer. I got it for free, so I'n not worried about modifying it at all. Another question, Is it ok if I paint some plastic emultion on the cheddar & place it in the fridge or should I vacuum seal it? My vacuumsealer doesn't work that bright as it doesn't seal 100%. Any suggestions?
I use a fridge therometer that I place inside to check the temp. I also work the freezer on a timer switch in order to regulate the temp.
Is it ok if I use a humidity meter that I used for my reptile cage some time ago? What do you think?
This same thing happened to me, and it has it's own thread if you are interested:
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4813.msg37094.html (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4813.msg37094.html)