I have read and reread all the Yogurt recipes but haven't seen an answer for 'runny' Yogurt, but I believe I have found the answer to this problem and possibly other whey problems.
We have been producing Yogurt for some time in a machine, tried a variety of recipes but still find it's runny. I happened on Ms Carrol's web site where someone asked for the answer to 'thin' Yogurt and her answer is to heat the milk to 185F and hold it there for 10 -20 minutes.
In her own words 'to take advantage of the whey proteins which help to make it firm'.
Yesterday we made up another batch using this idea and it worked. For the first time ever a good batch of firm creamy Yogurt. At the same time we took some to make drained Yogurt cheese and the whey was clear as water, with no cream runoff.
Recipe as follows:-
1 litre of Homogenised whole milk.
1/2 cup of Skim milk powder
2/3 cup of active Yogurt starter from the store
Method. Heat the milk to 185F and hold at that for 20 minutes.
Cool to 110F
In a bowl add starter and milk powder and stir to cream together,
slowly add a cupful of milk at 110F and stir to incorporate. When creamy and smooth, slowly add the remainder.
Add the whole mixture to the machine and time for 10 hours.
This has to be the finest Yogurt we've ever tasted, slightly tart, smooth and creamy with no graininess. Add a small amount of your favourite fruit after cooking for the tastiest treat ever.
The next question I have. What effect would pre-heating the milk and holding it have on cheese making? Would it help prevent the cream leak into the whey?
Thanks Beeman for the information. I tried to make yoghurt again on Thursday using a natural yoghurt at the starter. it definately was a better set than I was getting but still not what I was hoping for.
Was having a look on www.cheeselinks.com.au at their cultures for yoghurt and I noticed that the yoghurt culture that I have is noted at being a "thin" yoghurt, and that other starter were noted as being "thick" yoghurt. So maybe the combination of bacteria's does play a role in end result.
I will try what you have said with the culture that I have and see what difference there is.
Hi Beeman
Hi just made another my yogurt batch #5 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,720.0.html) and I went back to re-pasteurizing the milk to 185 F like I did on my batch #2 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,608.0.html) and I got a thicker set again. So it ads credance to what you are saying.
Your recipe and what you did is very similar to mine (https://cheeseforum.org/Recipes/Recipe_Yogurt.htm), with the difference of holding at 185 F for 20 minutes vs letting cool and you are using whole vs 1% milk and twice as much milk powder. I'll try the holding at 185 F dfor 20 minutes on my next batch, thanks.
Not sure on impact on milky whey problem, I normally don't have that, are you getting a good curd set?
I've added as much as a cup of milk powder to a 1/2 gallon of milk when making yogurt and it sets up really well, too.
Quote from: Cheese Head on January 10, 2009, 11:33:05 PM
Your recipe and what you did is very similar to mine (https://cheeseforum.org/Recipes/Recipe_Yogurt.htm), with the difference of holding at 185 F for 20 minutes vs letting cool and you are using whole vs 1% milk and twice as much milk powder. I'll try the holding at 185 F for 20 minutes on my next batch, thanks.
Not sure on impact on milky whey problem, I normally don't have that, are you getting a good curd set?
Your recipe has similar ingredients, but misses one major point. We add small amounts of milk very slowly to the starter, stops the shock and also 'creams' the starter and milk powder giving a better overall much smoother mixture.
Finally, no one answered the possible effects on holding milk at 185F prior to making cheese? I would suggest if it improves Yogurt might it also work on cheese making?
beeman, good point on mixing starter, that is also different. I'll try that idea as well.
Sorry can't help you on if holding high temp on milk (re-pasteurizing) prior to cheese making helps like it does for yogurt making. I don't know and have never tried it before making cheese.
Holding the temp for milk that high prior to making cheese? Isn't that alot like ultra pasteurization?
hi beeman, tried your methodology overnight (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,760.0.html), but with my 1% milk and less milk powder so I could do a comparison with my previous batches.
Congrats it is a stiffer and smoother yogurt! Thanks for the ideas!
I've been heating to same temperature but letting it cool slowly on counter rather than holding high for 20 min and quenching, which is probably almost as good. I think the bigger impact is from very thorough dilution of the yogurt starter. I've updated the standard website Yogurt Recipe (https://cheeseforum.org/Recipes/Recipe_Yogurt.htm).
Thanks again!
Quote from: Cheese Head on January 16, 2009, 12:55:34 AM
I've been heating to same temperature but letting it cool slowly on counter rather than holding high for 20 min and quenching, which is probably almost as good. I think the bigger impact is from very thorough dilution of the yogurt starter. I've updated the standard website Yogurt Recipe (https://cheeseforum.org/Recipes/Recipe_Yogurt.htm).Thanks again!
Interesting. We worked that way the first time, but last night we heated to 185F then held that temp for the full 20 mins, well to be honest within 2 degrees. The results were even better than the first time.
So we will definitely use this method in future and forget trying other cultures, looking for a stronger set.
Try using 3.5% Homo milk, it's even creamier!!
My yogurt is not that runny. If I want it thicker, I just dump out some of the whey as the jars get eaten down. Maybe this works for me since I use 32 oz jars to make yogurt and not the little 8 oz jars.
I use 2% milk. Culture it for about 8 hours. Pretty good thickness. 1% also does OK, but it yields a slightly thinner product.
Store bought stuff is thick from pectin or gelatin, but mine is pretty thick for homemade stuff.
I use 32 oz canning jars making 3/4 gallon to a gallon of yogurt at a time. Yogurt keeps for 4 weeks+ without problem.
Raise milk to 180F then add starter at about 95F. Test your thermometers to make sure they are accurate. I use about 2 -3 ounces of starter for every 3/4 gallon to a gallon of milk. Culture it in a cooler with heating pad for 8 hours and cool down.
And remember cleanliness is next to godliness with yogurt making!
Good luck
Do you think it would work with goat milk??When I make yogurt my recipe doesn't call for powdered milk I wonder if that is the diffrence or if it's the milk??? :-\
I knwo this is an old post but to answer the goatlady's question ...
The milk powder is a thickener unless you are only using powdered milk. If using only powdered milk, powdered WHOLE milk is prefered and whey is added. SOmething is the process kills the casins when milk is dehydrated (sprayed).
Wish I could help with the goats milk question but I still haven't found it except in quarts at one store and it's to pricey for me. The good news is one goat farmer I know should have milk again come fall.
...Jumping on the old thread bandwagon...
Hi Goatlady. I don't think the powdered milk in goat yogurt is necessary. I get a fairly firm set to my goatmilk yogurt. It is however a delicate yogurt and can be stirred into a runny texture. I like that idea of cooking the protiens a little longer "to take advantage of the whey proteins which help to make it firm" I think I will try that the next yogurt making day to see if it comes out less delicate. I simply use store bought organic brown cow brand plain yogurt as my starter about every 5th time I make yogurt. Otherwise, I reuse about a quarter cup of my own yogurt from the TOP of the last jar and get good results.
thanks i ll have to try again
I find my store bought milk yogurt is very delicate even with milk powder and gets thin when I stir in some fruits but the raw milk doesn't get thin at all.
I also get a good bit of whey separation in the store bought milk after a day or so but very little from the raw milk.
Debi, that's interesting.
I find when using store bought past & homogenized cow's milk and milk powder that I get very little whey separation, even after a few days, when I incubate for 8 hours, but I do get alot of whey if I forget it in the machine and it incubates for 14 hours :(!
Hmmm well I do stick the pot in the oven over night. No time in particular just when I get to it. I am very lax about my yogurt. I have been known to forget it all day until I get ready to cook supper.
Yep, me too ::), I forget mine overnight or in morning, and my little machine even has a dial on top so I know when I made it . . . good thing yogurt making is much more forgiving than cheese making!
Yesterday, since my goat is drying up, I went over to the dairy and bought a gallon of milk. It is pasteurized and, most unfortunately, homogenized but the cows are not feed antibiotics or growth hormones. I used 1/4 cup of the last of my goat yogurt as the starter and put in 1/4 c. powdered milk mixed with 1/2 c. water just to see what would happen; firm, firm, FIRM. Like after removing a large spoonful, turn the jar upside down and shake and nothing falls out firm. NO whey accumulated either. I did not hold the temp longer, I will do that when I have goat milk again.
Debi, I wonder if the antibiotics that show up in the store bought milk, and they are passed right along into the milk -same as the growth hormones, I wonder if they inhibit the growth of the yogurt bacteria resulting in a weak set?
Beats me Pam but I know I get a creamier everything with raw milk.
By heating to 185 F, what you are really doing is precipitating the albuminous proteins and making Riccota. If you add a little bit of citric acid (1 tsp/gal) to the heated milk, the precipitation will be even stronger (and add a little citrus flavor). This will no doubt give a firmer yogurt. We make rennet ice cream all the time, so I am also thinking of trying just a few drops per gallon of rennet in my yogurt for an even better texture. I believe rennet is deactivated above 105 F. So I would heat the milk to 185 F, add some citric acid, hold for 20 minutes, cool quickly to <105 F, add culture & rennet, hold for 30 minutes ???, and then hold at curing temp until "done".
I like to hang my yoghurt in cloth (much like making cream cheese) to drain off some of the whey. You can achieve any thickness you like this way depending on how long you drain it.
Line a collander with a clean, fine cloth. Pour in yoghurt. Tie corners. Hang over a pot for a few hours.
OOPPPS! I made yogurt and cheese last Friday night from raw milk put it in the oven and forgot it. Made Cheese again on Saturday and forgot about my yogurt until Monday night! Alot of whey on top. It didn't taste bad so I poured it into mason jars and there was a big PLOP about half way through.
Weird the middle made an almost cheese - like a soggy cream cheese.
My yogurt last year was okay, but I had fallen in love with Greek Gods brand yogurt and wanted to try to replicate that.
Last week, I used the method described in this thread of heating a gallon of milk (raw, in my case) to 185 degrees and holding it there for about 20 minutes. I then quick cooled it to about 95 degrees, then cultured it with a cup of Greek Gods honey yogurt. I removed a pint of the cultured milk to a canning jar as a future culture, then added a cup of sugar and about a quarter teaspoon of vanilla. I put the gallon jar and pint jar in my Coleman cooler and filled it with hot (~115 degrees) tap water.
I removed it 8 hours later and tried tipping the pint jar over - it was set solidly. After the gallon jar was cooled off completely, I tasted it and loved the flavor, but still wanted it thicker, so I drained it through butter muslin. I ended up with about a half gallon of really nice, thick yogurt. Slightly tangy-er than Greek Gods, but that's okay, because I think that GG is a bit too dessert-like.
I'm very happy with the results.
I was just thinking ... (dangerous thing) ... After i put the yogurt in the fridge over night I mix in my pulverized fruit. I mix it in adavance becuase I take a jar to work for lunch every few days. I wonder if it's the fruit that's making the puddles and not they whey. I use mangoes most of the time. Love those litttle buggers!