CheeseForum.org ยป Forum

CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: dthelmers on September 29, 2011, 01:41:27 PM

Title: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: dthelmers on September 29, 2011, 01:41:27 PM
Several of my family members are asking me to make them Brie just like President brand from the supermarket. This is a high cream content stabilized product with pc on the outside, but it never actually softens and ripens the cheese.
I know that this is not the real thing, but it is very popular with my family, baked inside puff pastry. and they want me to start making it for them regularly.
Can some one give me instructions on how to make this?
Thanks!
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: linuxboy on September 29, 2011, 03:13:56 PM
QuoteThis is a high cream content
[edit]: I looked this up, you're right, FDM is 60%. use cream per below.
QuoteCan some one give me instructions on how to make this?
If you have to make it and aren't using retentate:

TA 50 series at 1%-1.25%
PC Neige
92-94F
delta to rennet .1 (usually at 6.5-6.55)
.01-.015 CaCl2
6x floc
Because it's not retentate, get that moisture down, cut to 1", heal 5-10 mins, stir for 10-15 mins
drain @ 6.3-6.35
Flip to help drain. When pH hits 5.0, brine 20 mins per side.

That's about it.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: dthelmers on September 29, 2011, 03:25:55 PM
Thanks!
I have no objections to making something better than that product, but I need something with that texture the kids love. I thought it was high fat, but I was fooled by the "Double Creme". I thought they meant double cream, but "creme" is something else. UF, should have guessed.
I understand that a higher cream content will change the texture of pc ripened cheese, keeping it from getting soft and runny. Any suggestions on proportion of cream to whole milk on this? I"d like to make something better than the storebought, but have to stay in the range of that texture: firm  until baked, then quite gooey, not much aroma.
Thanks again!
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: linuxboy on September 29, 2011, 03:32:04 PM
IIRC, it is higher cream than normal, but not drastically so. Use 1 cup cream per gallon milk, or a little less. Should get you pretty close.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: dthelmers on September 29, 2011, 03:35:50 PM
Thanks, as always, for your help. I believe that your knowledge is only exceeded by your generosity in sharing it. You're making a cheesemaker of me.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: dthelmers on September 29, 2011, 03:48:13 PM
Is the TA 50 very different than the TA 60?
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: linuxboy on September 29, 2011, 03:52:20 PM
It's a little slower and makes a slightly tighter paste. Use 60 if you have it, results will be really close.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: mbox on October 01, 2011, 12:55:15 AM
Quote from: linuxboy on September 29, 2011, 03:13:56 PM
QuoteThis is a high cream content
[edit]: I looked this up, you're right, FDM is 60%. use cream per below.
QuoteCan some one give me instructions on how to make this?
If you have to make it and aren't using retentate:

TA 50 series at 1%-1.25%
PC Neige
92-94F
delta to rennet .1 (usually at 6.5-6.55)
.01-.015 CaCl2
6x floc
Because it's not retentate, get that moisture down, cut to 1", heal 5-10 mins, stir for 10-15 mins
drain @ 6.3-6.35
Flip to help drain. When pH hits 5.0, brine 20 mins per side.

That's about it.

I am quite keen to learn that too...but my mothertongue ain't english and i have it a bit difficult to understand the abbreviations used.  May i ask if you have some sort of Bord acronym key for laymen/beginner- cheesemaker such as me? I don't really know what TA stands for in the above one...every so often i find on other threads abbreviations i do not understand also.

thx, mbox
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: linuxboy on October 01, 2011, 01:25:11 AM
QuoteMay i ask if you have some sort of Bord acronym key for laymen/beginner- cheesemaker such as me?
No clue. You can find all of these by searching google. for example "fdm cheese"

TA is danisco's S thermophilus salivarius culture line.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: FRANCOIS on October 02, 2011, 03:34:20 AM
Sorry I've been away so long.....work is just starting to be reasonable hours now and the travel is dwindling.

Use TA50 or STAM, in conjunction with MM100 or MA4001.  Heat milk to 102F.  Ripen to 0.15 delta pH.  Cut curd quite small, should shrink up to slightly larger than a shelled peanut.  Drain in a warm room (70F) until 5.2pH is reached.  Brine to arrest pH drop.

If you stop draining at 5.0 you really run the risk of texture problems because the pH will continue to drop a bit until the cold brine and chiller has stopped it completely.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: NimbinValley on May 03, 2012, 08:19:55 AM
This thread is a little old but I'll see how I go...

Is STAM basically the same as TA50?

NVD.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: Boofer on May 03, 2012, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: dthelmers on September 29, 2011, 01:41:27 PM
Several of my family members are asking me to make them Brie just like President brand from the supermarket. This is a high cream content stabilized product with pc on the outside, but it never actually softens and ripens the cheese.
I know that this is not the real thing, but it is very popular with my family, baked inside puff pastry. and they want me to start making it for them regularly.
Can some one give me instructions on how to make this?
Thanks!
Hey, Dave, how'd this ever turn out?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: linuxboy on May 03, 2012, 02:31:18 PM
QuoteIs STAM basically the same as TA50?
Very close. It's a touch faster.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: dthelmers on May 03, 2012, 03:46:57 PM
Quote from: Boofer on May 03, 2012, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: dthelmers on September 29, 2011, 01:41:27 PM
Several of my family members are asking me to make them Brie just like President brand from the supermarket. This is a high cream content stabilized product with pc on the outside, but it never actually softens and ripens the cheese.
I know that this is not the real thing, but it is very popular with my family, baked inside puff pastry. and they want me to start making it for them regularly.
Can some one give me instructions on how to make this?
Thanks!
Hey, Dave, how'd this ever turn out?

-Boofer-
I haven't tried it yet. I made a more conventional Chaource from Iratherfly's recipe, and it cam out pretty good, although it needed a bit lower temp and ammoniated slightly, but still good. All I had on hand was neige, and that was too aggressive for the cave I had it in. I've been waiting for space and spring milk to do more. Just set up a freezer with  Johnson controller so I'll have more space; the little fridge has been too full with Caerphillies with various tweaks, a couple of cheddars, and a parm that's going a year and a half.
After making the Chaource, I'm pretty convinced that using good milk and a more traditional make is better than the stabilized product; but I think I'll give it a go anyway since this thread got revived.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: Boofer on May 04, 2012, 01:43:36 PM
Alright! New life for old threads! Sounds like something from the Dark Ages.

I hope you do make it. I don't think I've seen anyone do a Brie here. Okay, maybe one, and that one was so floppy I think it broke in two.

Should be a challenge.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: Tomer1 on May 04, 2012, 04:38:31 PM
QuoteI don't think I've seen anyone do a Brie here
Most likely for several reason :   ;D
1.Doesnt fit most ripening boxes
2.Needs a spaciality ring\mould which cant be used for any other cheese but brie.
3.Takes alot of space
4.Very fregile when mature.
5.wighs 1.5-2 kg\wheel.  Who could eat that much brie in one sitting?  :D
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: Caseus on May 04, 2012, 07:20:57 PM
You don't have to make a big wheel of Brie.  I see small wheels of Brie in the stores all the time.   They are the same size as a Camembert and packaged in the same small sized box.   
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: Boofer on May 04, 2012, 11:42:37 PM
I think a normal Tomme mould would allow for a decent Brie. The follower would help in the flipping. Very do-able.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: george on May 05, 2012, 10:24:27 AM
I did a couple of Bries early on using a regular tomme mold.  Had I known what I was doing then, they would have turned out fine.  Instead, they taught me all about slip skin and over-ripening.   ;)
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: NimbinValley on May 06, 2012, 08:53:19 AM
Just for your information in Australia there is no difference between brie and camembert - makers, large and small, use the terms interchangeably to refer to 'bloomy' surfaced ripened white mould cheese...

NVD
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: Caseus on May 06, 2012, 03:42:52 PM
I found an interesting and lengthy article on the web, Brie or Camembert (http://www.thenibble.com/reviews/main/cheese/cheese2/whey/brie-camembert.asp), that states that they are, in fact, the same thing except for size and where they are made.  AOC Camembert can only be so designated in France if it is made in a particular terrior around Normandy according to a strict process.  Brie is the same cheese, but made outside the terrior for Camembert and usually made in a larger size. 

So if you are making "Camembert" (knowing that it cannot be AOC Camembert unless you are doing it according to AOC rules in a specific area of France), then you are making Brie, and vice versa, save for the customary wheel size difference and location of production.

Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: luiscaraubas on July 02, 2012, 05:45:58 PM
Quotedelta to rennet .1
Hey Linuxboy, i'm a newbie as well.
What does it mean?
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: JeffHamm on July 02, 2012, 06:55:38 PM
Hi,

delta just means change, so "change to rennet .1", and in the context, it would just mean wait until there is a Ph change of 0.1 and then add rennet.

- Jeff
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: linuxboy on July 02, 2012, 11:08:23 PM
Thanks so much, Jeff. Sorry, I get caught up in the lingo sometimes.
Title: Re: "Brie" like President brand stabilized
Post by: luiscaraubas on July 02, 2012, 11:27:28 PM
JeffHamm and linuxboy, thank you very much for the guidance  ;D.