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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Pasta Filata (Pulled Curd) => Topic started by: LittleSeed on October 03, 2011, 10:01:27 PM

Title: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: LittleSeed on October 03, 2011, 10:01:27 PM
Yesterday I tried my hand at making Caciocavallo. Even after watching some videos of the Italian masters doing it, getting the gourd form was pretty tricky for me, but I'm happy with how it came out :) Today it brined for a few hours and is now hanging with some cheesecloth around it at room temp to get a little bit of a rind on it before it goes into the cave.

I had some problems getting the curd to reach the right acidification for stretching. I did a spin test after 45min of cheddaring and no stretch. I tried again after an hour, and again each half hour until 4 hours had passed, it was 11pm, and I decided to just let it acidify over night at room temp. This AM the curd was ready and passed the spin test - 13 hours after starting to cheddar! The make procedure I used was taken from a Peter Dixon make for 100 gallons. I scaled down to a 1 gallon make and then checked a few other 1 gallon provolone recipes to make sure the measurements were similar. Here's what I ended up with:

1 gallon milk (whole, pasteurized, non-homogenized)
1/4 tsp thermophilic culture
1/4 tsp mild lipase powder
1/4 tsp liquid calf rennet

- heat milk to 93f, add thermophilic culture, rest 1hr
- add lipase, rest 10 min
- stir in rennet, check for floc and multiply by 3.5 (my floc time was 18min x 3.5=63min)
- cut curd into corn kernel sized pieces, rest 5 min
- heat while stirring gently to 95-98f in 15 min, 114-118 in 30 min (total cook time 45 min) until curds are springy and firm
- settle curds under whey for 15 min, rake curds to one side and pour off whey
- slice into slabs and stack until spin test is passed (restack every 15 to 20 min), keep in colander over hot whey to keep warm
- when curd has reached correct acidity, stretch and form using 170f water
- place in ice cold water to harden for 20 min
- brine in heavy brine for 2-3 hours

I'm very new at this and really have no idea why it took so long to reach the correct acidity. Also, you can see in the photo, the surface of the cheese isn't completely smooth - it looks a little pock marked... Is this because I didn't have hot enough water or enough stretch? I'd love to get some feedback! Thanks for your help :)


Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Gürkan Yeniçeri on October 03, 2011, 10:15:09 PM
Hi Littleseed,

I made a similar cheddar on the weekend. During the cheddaring step, I kept the temp about 40C in the curd and the acidification reached to pH 5.5 quickly. I can't tell you exactly how long as I don't have the make notes with me.
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: LittleSeed on October 04, 2011, 12:59:04 PM
Hi Gürkan,
I think I'm going to invest in some ph testing supplies! I know it would be a huge help in understanding what's happening in my makes and a great learning tool. Is there a method you recomend? I'm looking at New England Cheesemaking Supply's
Waterproof pH Tester (with ±0.1 pH Accuracy) but not sure if that's the best way to go. Would love your recommendation!

Do you have any ideas on why my surface wasn't smooth? My best guess is that my water wasn't hot enough to get a better stretch, but am not sure. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Gürkan Yeniçeri on October 04, 2011, 09:15:42 PM
Hello Littleseed,

I bought the IQ125 from cheesemaking.com which they no longer supply. It only has the .1 display where a lot of people here would recommend .01.

Their PH1 product seems a good one with .01 readout. If you search for pH meters in the forum, you will see lots of recommendations. Do not buy paper strips.

It is true that a good pH meter gives you consistency in your making. Since I am using it, my cheddars are coming out actually like real cheddars. It is also shocking to learn that all store bought P/H milk in my area is starting between pH7.0 and pH7.2

Edit: Yes, for the surface, I also think that the water wasn't hot enough. I think you have done a good job on the shaping anyway. It is an artisan cheese and does not need to conform to commercial standards  ;D
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Boofer on October 05, 2011, 12:56:19 PM
Looks great, LittleSeed!

You've inspired me to try to make this cheese. I have visions of the little gourds hanging there with a little tan on them (from the olive oil and affinage).

I've never tasted Caciocavallo so I wouldn't know what to expect.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Hande on October 05, 2011, 03:46:45 PM
LittleSeed, your Caciocavallo has very nice shape.
I also try  Caciocavallo 2 weeks ago, and my shaping was not so good than yours. My came out like "pumpkin".
Yes It was difficult to handling 3,5lb very soft cheese. Immediately when I take it out hot bath, it lost it's shape, start stretch all over my hands  >:D
Next time I need 3 different kind temperature bath. Hot, cold and 113f bath where you can shaping it in peace. And four gallon was too much to one cheese.

Hande

(//)
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Boofer on October 06, 2011, 02:31:58 AM
Quote from: Hande on October 05, 2011, 03:46:45 PM
I also try  Caciocavallo 2 weeks ago, and my shaping was not so good than yours. My came out like "pumpkin".
Yes It was difficult to handling 3,5lb very soft cheese. And four gallon was too much to one cheese.
Hande, seems like all your cheeses come out looking like professional cheese art. The Caciocavallo "pumpkin" looks great too! Very high-end.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Cloversmilker on October 06, 2011, 03:26:30 AM
Quote from: Boofer on October 05, 2011, 12:56:19 PM


I've never tasted Caciocavallo so I wouldn't know what to expect.


About 40 years ago as a newly independent and very economically challenged teenager, I would regularly buy Caciocavallo from a cheese booth/shop that was close to the riverfront in Portland Oregon.  The owner was an elderly immigrant.  It was called (phonetically) kushkaval and hung in the shop without refrigeration.  I remember also getting kasseri and mizithra.  Having grown up with Tillamook cheddar (which was good in those days), these cheeses from the Mediterranean were very interesting.  After leaving Portland it was many years before I saw them again. 



Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: LittleSeed on October 11, 2011, 04:33:07 PM
Thanks Hande - I'm fond of the little guy :) Mine was only 1lb (not real caciocavallo size). I think your pumpkin shape is quite beautiful!

Boofer - I'm glad you're giving it a try! My memories of my favorite caciocavallo's are of it being somewhere between mozzarella and aged provolone in moisture and flavor. I know - that's a big range :) I haven't had the real thing though for a few years but am going for something less piquant than an aged provolone with a meaty, moist string cheese texture (ha - can you tell I'm a novice?). I'd really like to smoke one and try to go for a scamorza like flavor.

The day before I made mine, I found a few neat videos of Italian cheesemakers showing how it's done - their techniques helped me alot and made me a little more confident about handling the curd. I like the "choke and bounce" technique they use to get the shape right. Mine was too light for it to really work on, but Hande - I think it would be perfect for a batch your size! Here are the links:

Caciocavallo di "San Francesco" (http://youtu.be/_SE7Hz9tTt0)
Iacocca Formaggi (http://youtu.be/FbF2rftM2U4)

They're both amazing - I would highly recommend checking them out even if you aren't planning on making caciocavallo anytime soon!

My little gourd has been hanging in the cave for a week now and has a beautiful golden rind. I oiled it for the first time yesterday - I hope I didn't wait too long.
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Hande on October 11, 2011, 05:25:14 PM
Thank's LittleSeed, those videos open my eye  :)
Can't wait to make second one..

Hande
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Goatmom on October 23, 2011, 11:44:43 AM
i'm really new - have tried 5 batches (about 3 gallons each) of cacciocavallo/scamorza type.  two were huge successes and after brining and a good chill, i smoked them with apple wood - delicious.  but three would not stretch.  the last batch i let acidify for three days in the fridge (after 4 hours at room temp) and still would not stretch.
my main question is: do any of you make this cheese with goats' milk?  i use fresh from my goats.  this late in the season the milk is getting more alkaline (although i do not own a pH meter).  should i just give up?  i love this cheese and so do my friends.  thanks so much.
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Tomer1 on October 23, 2011, 02:28:43 PM
It was called (phonetically) kushkaval and hung in the shop without refrigeration. [/quote]

I love aged kashkaval, nice sharp taste with slight sweetness to it.
From my understanding its aged like any other cheese in a cave ,no idea why it wasnt refrigerated, maybe it was made in a very dry style.

Say hande, how are you keeping your humidty high in that fridge?
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Hande on October 23, 2011, 03:48:37 PM
Tomer, the bottom of the refrigerator I have that my home made "humidifier". Works fine and easy to clean.
I keep Rh 87-90%

Hande
Title: Re: Caciocavallo - a first try and some questions about acidity
Post by: Tomer1 on October 23, 2011, 10:19:44 PM
Oh I remember that,
You made it with computer fans right?
I have got to implemant that.