I am going to try making my first Camembert, and have not yet developed a taste for runny cheese. I love cheeses like Cowgirl Creamery's Mt Tam, and St Angel when they are custardy in the middle but not runny. Is there a general rule of thumb for how long to age a Camembert to get a consistency like that? I read somewhere that pressing on it, you could tell by the firmness, kind of like testing how well done a steak is by pressing on it. Any advice?
Thanks!
Camembert matures 6 - 8 weeks depends on your cave temp and humidity. I just served mine last nite party it was just right ,creamy in the middle and the sides just an ooze but not runny. It is 7 weeks old. I topped it Basil pesto on a platter and served with water crackers on the side. My friends can not believe it is homemade. It has that earthy,mushroomy taste with the right tang on your cheek and tongue like a good wine. It is a AH HAH! moment I must say.
Happy Cheesemaking.
I read that if you clench your fist then press the fleshy part of the base of your thumb then that is what a ready camembert should feel like. I suppose it all depends on how fleshy your hands are!
Happy fist clenching.
Quote from: cheesequeen on November 13, 2011, 08:44:05 PM
Camembert matures 6 - 8 weeks depends on your cave temp and humidity. I just served mine last nite party it was just right ,creamy in the middle and the sides just an ooze but not runny. It is 7 weeks old. I topped it Basil pesto on a platter and served with water crackers on the side. My friends can not believe it is homemade. It has that earthy,mushroomy taste with the right tang on your cheek and tongue like a good wine. It is a AH HAH! moment I must say.
Happy Cheesemaking.
Kudos to you, cheesequeen! Success! 8)
-Boofer-
Thank you. I am making my first gruyere right now. It is on its third day draining on room temp. Keeping my finger cross for that aha moment again!
Happy Cheesemaking! 8)
On a related note (not to hijack your thread :))....
I have 7 4-in cams all ready at the same time (I know....poor planning). Can I freeze them to keep the current level of ripeness? I searched around, but couldn't find a thread about this yet...
Thanks!
MattK
Hmm mmm I am not sure. I have not seen thread about frozen cam. Mine is usually eaten as soon as they are ready. I give them as gifts to my family and friends. I would think they could be frozen as long as they are wrapped good, double layered foil, but not longer than few weeks only. Thaw out in fridge then room temp before serving. All you can do is perhaps try one cam doing this and see what happens. I am interested to know outcome as well.
Happy Cheesemaking
Camembert can age properly within 21 days and be "à point" by day 28. To age it longer you will need a far lower temperature than classic Camember and good pre-draining or smaller cutting of curd (Camembert AOC curd it ladled). Watch out for runny texture because it is a sign of ammoniation. An undesired smelly spicy quality for this cheese - a sign that ammonia is taking over. Properly ripe Camembert should be supple and soft, elastic and even gooey -but never runny.
Yes, judge it by the smell and by the feeling of your skin below the thumb when your hand is close-fisted. Some people compare it to the feeling of pressing your eye when your eyelid is close. Smell should be mushroomy, not pungent. If you are not sure whether or not your cheese has ammoniated, try drinking orange juice right after you eat the cheese. If it passes, the cheese is fine. If it's utterly bizarre in your mouth - the cheese is over the hill. (by the way, this is a bad pairing even with perfect Camembert...)
Best suggestion; head on over to a good cheese shop and buy a Camembert de Normandie AOC (any brand). This is the most proper example of a perfect Camembert consistency. Enjoy it and memorize the texture, aroma, flavor profile and rind appearance. Take photos to later compare with yours. Most other Camemberts are not as good and heavily stabilized so they lack the flavor and proper texture. A good Coulommiers or Brie such as Fromage de Meaux will also work
Quote from: MattK on November 28, 2011, 08:24:56 PM
On a related note (not to hijack your thread :))....
I have 7 4-in cams all ready at the same time (I know....poor planning). Can I freeze them to keep the current level of ripeness? I searched around, but couldn't find a thread about this yet...
Thanks!
MattK
Looks like you're going to have a lot of happy friends with your Holiday Camembert Gifts. ;D
-Boofer-
Thanks Boofer. They want my cheese, and my French Macarons than anything else. Love making it.
Happy Cheesemaking 8)
Quote from: MattK on November 28, 2011, 08:24:56 PM
On a related note (not to hijack your thread :))....
I have 7 4-in cams all ready at the same time (I know....poor planning). Can I freeze them to keep the current level of ripeness? I searched around, but couldn't find a thread about this yet...
Thanks!
MattK
I would not freeze them. Had some terrible experiences every time I tried. It really destroys their texture. you can age them at lower temperature or move them to the fridge sooner and wrap them sooner (Wood or cardboard Camembert box is the best). You can also add a pinch of TA culture when making them to stabilize them and they will last far longer before going runny and ammoniated on you but will be naturally less supple. I have not yet found a way to freeze them (and I always recognize it if a store froze/defrosted them on me). If anyone has a good method - please let me know too!
Quote from: iratherfly on November 29, 2011, 05:44:32 AM
Quote from: MattK on November 28, 2011, 08:24:56 PM
On a related note (not to hijack your thread :))....
I have 7 4-in cams all ready at the same time (I know....poor planning). Can I freeze them to keep the current level of ripeness? I searched around, but couldn't find a thread about this yet...
Thanks!
MattK
I would not freeze them. Had some terrible experiences every time I tried. It really destroys their texture. you can age them at lower temperature or move them to the fridge sooner and wrap them sooner (Wood or cardboard Camembert box is the best). You can also add a pinch of TA culture when making them to stabilize them and they will last far longer before going runny and ammoniated on you but will be naturally less supple. I have not yet found a way to freeze them (and I always recognize it if a store froze/defrosted them on me). If anyone has a good method - please let me know too!
MattK, "TheCheeseMaker.com" (http://thecheesemaker.com/supplies.htm) has those cam boxes.
-Boofer-
Shoot, that reminds me it's time to get these boxes in stock and offer them to people on the forum... this guy charges WAY too much and I don't like the cardboard with print of wood. I want wood gotdamnit!
Boofer,I am very interested to get those Camembert WOODBOXES too. So if you get a big order and want to spit them please put me on your listing to buy.
iratherfly,
Thanks for the useful tips for storage and preservation of cam.
Happy Cheesemaking 8)
Quote from: iratherfly on November 29, 2011, 07:54:26 PM
Shoot, that reminds me it's time to get these boxes in stock and offer them to people on the forum... this guy charges WAY too much and I don't like the cardboard with print of wood. I want wood gotdamnit!
So...when can we expect them? :)
-Boofer-
Fromagex used to have a good selection of wooden boxes. We have them here, imported from France, but honestly they aren't worth the money.
-Boofer- I actually have those boxes, and that's where the cheeses are currently located (in foil first).
I popped one in the freezer yesterday, and moved it to the fridge this AM. I'll get to room temp tonight, and see if there's a difference. If not (or if not bad), I'm thinking of vac-sealing them in their card-wood boxes and freezing..I'll keep you posted!
Thanks all for the feedback - what a great board :)
MattK
Hi Matt. I have had those in the freezer for 2-4 weeks in Camembert boxes on top of which I vacuum sealed a bag with the FoodSaver. The really bad effect starts a week or two through the freezing. They just get nasty. Not spoiled or anything, just the same texture as if you would use a vinegar or citric acid to start them instead of bacteria. Kind of fluffy in a weird way. No longer supple and knotted into a uniform pâté. Let me know if you get better results. Post photos if you can!
I also suggest you avoid foil with these. If you must wrap, use a good cheese paper or perforated cellophane. Foil is used on blue cheeses to PREVENT and RECEDE rind growth. If you are interested, Boofer and I were talking about putting together a group purchase for the high tech Expaco paper which is what companies like Ile de France use for their cheese. It comes in massive 1000-sheet boxes so we were thinking of splitting it 10 way.
Which boxes did you get? All wood? or wood + cardboard with wood print? or cardboard only?
Quote from: iratherfly on November 30, 2011, 07:28:30 PM
I also suggest you avoid foil with these. If you must wrap, use a good cheese paper or perforated cellophane.
I have used the cheese paper pictured here with good results. The latest is my Taleggio #2 (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8395.msg60227.html#msg60227). Good stuff.
-Boofer-
I have used these cheesepaper for my cam and they are good. Wrap the cam in these cheesepaper first of course and then wrap in foil if you want to experiment putting them in freezer when they are ripe. Then thaw in fridge and then room temp before serving. Please let us know outcome good or bad. We all hope for the good of course.
I am interested to buy cheesepaper in bulk rate and cam wood boxes for storage.
Whoever is coordinating, please put me on you to buy list. I truly appreciate it.
Thanks and Happy Cheesemaking to all! Tis the season fa la la la la!!!! 8)
Boofer the Tallegios look nice. How did they come out?
I have used their cheesepaper and it suffocated the rind of my cams to shreds. I also used formaticum and it was even worst. The Expaco blew me away. It's really high tech. you use one side for some cheeses ans the other side for others. It is the only paper that can work on bloomy, washed, natural and blue.
Funny as this thread is going, yesterday I got a French Sheep's milk Fromage Blanc France. I have had it in France and loved its delicious creamy texture so I was looking forward to spreading it on a cracker with a couple of slices of Persian cucumber and a dash of dill. I was very disappointed to find it chalky, crumbly and weird. The texture was familiar... and then I remembered where from: Fromage Blanc was a staple in our household. When I was a teenager my parents attempted to keep it in the freezer so that they don't have a no-fromage blanc emergency if they run out. That wast that texture. The cheese monger or dumbass distributor had probably frozen it. Come to think of it, that was this texture degradation that I got with my frozen Camemberts. It's just wreaks havoc on cheese, and just shouldn't happen. You don't need to have a delicate palate to be able to tell the difference...
There is however one technique that works for long preservation without freezing: Nitrogen packing. It basically puts the food to sleep. Vegetables in bags are packed that way (noticed that in suprtmarket the bagged veggies are no longer in vacuum? that's because the bags are pumped with nitrogen). They also pack fresh pasta this way, grated cheese etc. They use it in wineries in bulk tanks for grapes to keep them fresh and in food transport via trucks, trains and ships. Much of the time sensitive cheese brought over from Europe is brought in sealed containers pumped in nitrogen. (that's the only way a Crottin that's ripe at day 14 can make it to America and still be at day 14 in the shop). I haven't done it at home yet but I am ready to test and report.
The technique is simple. First vacuum the cheese. then, when there is no air left in the bag stick a needle from the nitrogen tank in the corner of the bag and pump it so that the bag is loose but not too pumped. Take the needle out and cover it with your finger or tape to prevent air from coming in. Put the corner only back in the vacuum sealer and seal without vacuuming. Voila! Home made nitrogen pack.
Quote from: iratherfly on December 02, 2011, 06:15:14 AM
Boofer the Tallegios look nice. How did they come out?
I should be able to report on them either tomorrow or Saturday. It will be in their thread.
Quote from: iratherfly on December 02, 2011, 06:15:14 AMThe technique is simple. First vacuum the cheese. then, when there is no air left in the bag stick a needle from the nitrogen tank in the corner of the bag and pump it so that the bag is loose but not too pumped. Take the needle out and cover it with your finger or tape to prevent air from coming in. Put the corner only back in the vacuum sealer and seal without vacuuming. Voila! Home made nitrogen pack.
What a great idea.
-Boofer-
I just told my wife I need a nitrogen tank. Oh boy, the look on her face. Walking on eggshells here. That nitrogen tank better pay the rent.
Home brewing suppliers have quite small tanks available. A 2-1/2 lb. size is pretty easy to hide.
there are even smaller ones for paintball guns
This technique is called gas flushing. Pure nitrogen is an expensive way to go and not really needed. Most manufacturers use a CO2/N blend. It is only suitable for pressed presses, with some exceptions. You can't gas flush camembert though, it will die and you won't stop anerobic ripening anyway.
Traditional camembert from France is young in your supermarket because it's air freighted in containers.
Thanks for that info Francois. The thing is I know from the former affinieur and cave manager at Murray's that some of the FRESHER cheese they get such as Crottin come in pressurized gas containers that put them to sleep. I also know from a winery owner in NY that he trucks grapes all the way from CA. They pick them in Sonoma county at 3-4am when they are "asleep" and put them in a nitrogen tanker that makes the 4-5 day trip to NY. When they unload them they are virtually responding like grapes that were picked 3 hours ago. I have not seen the cheese containers I am talking about but I really want to look into it.
How much anerobic activity is there on PC and Geo? Geo can probably go nuts but PC really halts without oxygen
It's the first I've heard of shipping mold ripened cheeses that way. I've done trials on crumbled blue flushed in CO2/N and it certainly didn't slow anything down in terms of flavour development. Linux may know more.
I will go down there and try to get more info. This is important to me because I intend on competing in some contests and need to sheep perfect cheese.
Quote from: iratherfly on December 06, 2011, 09:16:06 AM
I will go down there and try to get more info. This is important to me because I intend on competing in some contests and need to sheep perfect cheese.
Freudian slip? ;)
Friggin' hilarious and absolutely yes. Naturally I would go and re-edit it now but that's a funny error. (I think only someone like myself whose English is not native would make such error, even though I have been living in the states for 18+ years and I write a lot for living)