Hi all,
My name is Sam and I'm currently living in Amman, Jordan. My family and I came here a few years ago from Australia for a visit, and decided to stay on for a while, mainly for study.
My reason for joining this forum is to learn more about cheese making. Since moving to Jordan we now have access to raw milk (EDIT: the shop I buy it from is closing down :( ) and I am looking at different ways to utilise it besides lattes and cereal. I've already attempted yoghurt making, with some success. The only "problem", if you can call it that, is that fresh yoghurts and cheeses of excellent quality are readily available here daily, which discourages you a bit from making your own. Even the supermarket products are fresh and good quality with minimal additives.
Nevertheless, there's a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself, I found. I'm in the process of making a small incubator to help with the yoghurt during the winter months and perhaps going to use it to try a few other things (i.e. tempeh).
I found this forum while searching on ways to make milk ricotta, as my first attempt came out a bit rubbery, and found some good information here which will hopefully help me with my next attempt.
That's about it, feel free to ask any questions you have.
regards
sam.
If you have access to great yogurt priced fairly maybe you should focus on aged europien style cheeses which might be a bit more tricky to get or perhaps are imported (hense expenssive).
Ahlan Bik
Ana is mi John, my family and I lived in Damascus from 2001-2004, where I used to work, we travelled to Jordan three time, did Wadi Rum & Seven Pillars, Petra, Dead Sea, King's Highway, several ruins like Karnack, port city of Aqaba and capital Amman. Both are wonderful countries and people, very very sad what is happening in Syria now.
I remember the beautiful fresh cheeses, yogurt and labneh that we could get there cheaply, and all the fresh and seasonal fruit & veg, probably never eat as healthy in my life.
Where are you living and what are you studying (which I assume is way different from making cheese :)).
Ma As Salameh
PS: You are our first I believe in Jordan, so with my admin rights I just added you to our list and added a Country specific Board in case you or anyone wants to post anything Jordan specific there.
Quote from: Tomer1 on November 28, 2011, 09:32:06 AM
If you have access to great yogurt priced fairly maybe you should focus on aged europien style cheeses which might be a bit more tricky to get or perhaps are imported (hense expenssive).
Hi Tomer, I guess its a case of learning to walk before I run, to be honest its not something I thought about in the past much but I can see a certain appeal in it now. My wife is from South East Asia hence the desire to have a go at making some Tempeh, which is impossible to find here, at any price.
Quote from: John (CH) on November 28, 2011, 11:55:17 AM
Ahlan Bik
Ana is mi John, my family and I lived in Damascus from 2001-2004, where I used to work, we travelled to Jordan three time, did Wadi Rum & Seven Pillars, Petra, Dead Sea, King's Highway, several ruins like Karnack, port city of Aqaba and capital Amman. Both are wonderful countries and people, very very sad what is happening in Syria now.
I remember the beautiful fresh cheeses, yogurt and labneh that we could get there cheaply, and all the fresh and seasonal fruit & veg, probably never eat as healthy in my life.
Where are you living and what are you studying (which I assume is way different from making cheese :)).
Ma As Salameh
PS: You are our first I believe in Jordan, so with my admin rights I just added you to our list and added a Country specific Board in case you or anyone wants to post anything Jordan specific there.
Marhaban John, I'm studying Arabic and doing some other religious studies, plus we found it an excellent environment for the kids to grow up in. You're right, the people here are great, and it is sad about Syria, so far Jordan has been spared the same type of problems, for the most part, and we're hoping it stays that way.
The people who live in my neighbourhood are very health conscious and we have a good supply of good nourishing food, to be honest we have hardly eaten out at a restaurant at all in the past few years, let alone a fast food place. The person we buy our milk and veges from is a friend who has a farm in Jerash and is trusted. Otherwise we try to stick to other fruits and veges from the region. Right now its the olive harvesting time, so we just picked up our "tanaka" of fresh virgin olive oil for this season.
Our place is just on the north-western edge of Amman, if we walk up the hill we get to the top of a ridge with a wadi below, in fact here's a pic that I took this morning while going on a walk with my wife:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6418068273_34e5034118_b.jpg)
I'll keep an eye on the new Jordan specific board to help out where I can, I'll also post up details of my incubator and cheese adventures as I go along.
wa salaam
sam
Welcome to the CheeseForum, Sam! Beautiful picture - you are fortunate to live in such beautiful country and I thank you for sharing with us.
Best wishes on your cheesemaking adventures. You've come to the right place for fellowship and advice, when needed.
Sam, welcome to the forum!
Consider yourself lucky for having access to raw milk. We look forward to seeing what you make with it. Thanks for the pic. Love to see more of your area and your cheese making efforts.
If you have a question, don't hesitate to ask it. You can also use the search function. Answers are available...a lot are useful. ;)
-Boofer-
Ahalan ya habibi!! Welcome to the forum!
As Tomer, I was born and raised next door in Israel but unlike him I have been in the US for many years. Do you ever cross to Israel? There is actually a very interesting cheese project done in the Palestinian territories right now to help these poor people get to sustainable economy with their wonderful livestock and great grazing area.
Another member of this forum, Alex live in Haifa (as you may know a city with very mixed peaceful arab and jewish population). He made friends with local Druze villagers and their goats who graze on Mount Carmel are supposedly giving him some incredible raw goats milk. That's merely 130km from where you are now. Do you have Druze in your area?
Keep up posted on your cheese adventures! Would love to see more photos
Yoav
Welcome to the forum Sambo.
Can you get water buffalo milk or yogurt there?
Thanks for all the warm welcomes, its appreciated.
Quote from: Boofer on November 28, 2011, 05:05:26 PM
Consider yourself lucky for having access to raw milk. We look forward to seeing what you make with it. Thanks for the pic. Love to see more of your area and your cheese making efforts.
Yes it is a blessing, I once bought some in Australia but had to go through hoops to get it, and it was of limited supply. Here it reminds me of how milk used to be when I was small.
I have a flickr account where I put up pics when I have the chance, Here (http://bit.ly/XiL7nR)
Quote from: iratherfly on November 28, 2011, 11:16:11 PM
Ahalan ya habibi!! Welcome to the forum!
As Tomer, I was born and raised next door in Israel but unlike him I have been in the US for many years. Do you ever cross to Israel? There is actually a very interesting cheese project done in the Palestinian territories right now to help these poor people get to sustainable economy with their wonderful livestock and great grazing area.
Another member of this forum, Alex live in Haifa (as you may know a city with very mixed peaceful arab and jewish population). He made friends with local Druze villagers and their goats who graze on Mount Carmel are supposedly giving him some incredible raw goats milk. That's merely 130km from where you are now. Do you have Druze in your area?
Keep up posted on your cheese adventures! Would love to see more photos
Yoav
I haven't been into Israel or Palestine but I hope to go there one day. The project you mention sounds very interesting.
I've never met any druze here where I live, although I don't get outside my own area much. I remember seeing some goats in the hills near Karak down south that had awesomely huge udders, next time I go I want to try and buy some of the milk from the owner.
Quote from: Gürkan Yeniçeri on November 29, 2011, 03:24:12 AM
Can you get water buffalo milk or yogurt there?
No unfortunately, I heard its common in Egypt but I've never seen it here. We can get camels milk locally but not sure if its any good for cheese, it has a very strong after-taste when drinking it. Surprisingly, sheep's milk is also hard to come by and I heard its because the large dairy producers buy it all up in advance. You can get sheep's yoghurt in the supermarket, its thicker and creamier than cows milk yogurt, and my milk supplier also sells it sometimes - his has a very strong flavour and comes with a thick cheesy layer on top.
These are some great photos. Some seem to be taken right on the Israeli border. I assume since you are in friendly Jordan, you can make a day trip; it's so close to you. By the way, you can get buffalo milk in the Galilee.
By the way, your Gaggia... what type of wand do you use for latte art? I have a Gaggia lever heat exchange machine with their panarello wand and it froths the milk too much too quickly. I don't want all this air injection... I know how to froth without the idiot proof system; do you have a single, double or triple hole steam wand? Where did you get it?
Quote from: iratherfly on November 29, 2011, 05:13:17 AM
These are some great photos. Some seem to be taken right on the Israeli border. I assume since you are in friendly Jordan, you can make a day trip; it's so close to you. By the way, you can get buffalo milk in the Galilee.
So close, yet so far... my family are all Malaysian passport holders and since Malaysia has no diplomatic relations with Israel their passports are clearly stamped "Valid in all countries except... Israel". Plus we travel into Syria sometimes (or at least used to before the current problems) and I don't want to complicate matters by having an Israeli stamp in my passport (I know its possible to enter without a stamp, but I don't want to risk it as I've heard sometimes you get a stamp even if you ask them not to). Things are changing fast in the region, so who knows what will happen in the near future.
Quote from: iratherfly on November 29, 2011, 05:13:17 AM
By the way, your Gaggia... what type of wand do you use for latte art? I have a Gaggia lever heat exchange machine with their panarello wand and it froths the milk too much too quickly. I don't want all this air injection... I know how to froth without the idiot proof system; do you have a single, double or triple hole steam wand? Where did you get it?
It's a Cubika, I have a single hole wand on it, retrofitted from a Rancilio Sylvia.... I bought the wand in Sydney from a shop in Bondi Junction (sorry can't remember the name). You can remove the plastic extension bits on the standard wand and it works better however it becomes quite short and hard to use. I'm thinking of getting a La Pavoni Europicola from the UK sent over, they are relatively cheap there compared to Australia (around AU$600 compared to over $1100 in Sydney). I want something simple and free of too much electronics in case I need to service or repair it. At the moment I'm using a Presso here in Jordan, it works quite well, but obviously has no milk steaming capability!
As far as I know there isnt a druz community in jordan only beduin.
The druz are concentrated in northen israel and syria and some in lebanon.
QuoteMalaysia has no diplomatic relations with Israel
Unfortunatlly many muslim countries dont.
QuoteI know its possible to enter without a stamp, but I don't want to risk it as I've heard sometimes you get a stamp even if you ask them not to
I wouldnt worry about it, if any one asks just say you went to see the "holy city" of jerusalem,
Any religious muslim will be excited to hear about it since many arent able to make pilgram.
It might be possible to enter thru the jordaian-palastinien side but Im not sure.
The way religion is taking its hold in today's world is concerning. There is an increasing trend of fundamentalism in all religions, even in judeism im afrid.
Quote from: iratherfly on November 29, 2011, 05:13:17 AM
These are some great photos. Some seem to be taken right on the Israeli border. I assume since you are in friendly Jordan, you can make a day trip; it's so close to you. By the way, you can get buffalo milk in the Galilee.
By the way, your Gaggia... what type of wand do you use for latte art? I have a Gaggia lever heat exchange machine with their panarello wand and it froths the milk too much too quickly. I don't want all this air injection... I know how to froth without the idiot proof system; do you have a single, double or triple hole steam wand? Where did you get it?
Iratherfly, head to http://www.coffeeparts.com.au (http://www.coffeeparts.com.au), I am sure they will ship to overseas.
Thanks Gürkan. I can get parts here in the US, I just haven't seen such part on a Gaggia before.
Sambo - thanks! That makes perfect sense. My previous machine was a Rancillio Sylvia v3. I hated it... (too picky about grinds and very poor temperature control that requires you to tem-surf or install a PID on it. Too much for that price point). It did however had great steam wand. How did you attach it to the Gaggia? They do sell a "latte art" Panerello wand but it is black plastic and my machine is all chrome and brushed stainless and it will look horrible... taking off the current wand and use the steam arm would have worked if only the arm was longer.
QuoteSo close, yet so far... my family are all Malaysian passport holders and since Malaysia has no diplomatic relations with Israel their passports are clearly stamped "Valid in all countries except... Israel". Plus we travel into Syria sometimes (or at least used to before the current problems) and I don't want to complicate matters by having an Israeli stamp in my passport (I know its possible to enter without a stamp, but I don't want to risk it as I've heard sometimes you get a stamp even if you ask them not to). Things are changing fast in the region, so who knows what will happen in the near future.
That's so sad. I thought you said you are Australian. That would make it easy. Well, the next time I am around I can come and meet you in Jordan. My parents house is really close to Tomer and Alex... Israel does have peace with Jordan of course.
FYI - It is VERY common to visit Israel by way of Syria, Lebanon, UAE etc. Israel will let you in -no problem. There are a many religious people who make the journey and Arabs who have family in Israel and Palestine, not to mention International business travelers who are citizens of a western country who need to travel to Arab business hubs as well as Israel. Israel obviously had to accept that it would have visitors who are frequent to other Arab countries when it made peace with Jordan and Egypt. No one in Israel expect people who live in Europe or the US not to visit Dubai, Mecca or Teheran as a condition to enter Israel. The problem is only the other way around.
About the stamp: Israel realize you may have problem traveling to these very few countries with which it has no ties. They have an official policy of NOT to stamp your passport (just ask when you hand it over in passport control). Usually if they see Syria and Malaysia stamps they will probably suggest it to you as a courtesy anyway. Instead of stamping it, they will just give you a note that you present back to them when you leave the country (then throw it in the trash). I have never heard of them refusing it but I have heard of people handing them American passports and not asking for a no-stamp receipt so they stamp it. Believe me, Israel loves its tourists and need them to return as often as possible. It's a major driving force in the nation's economy.
What are the most popular cheeses in Jordan and Syria (except Labaneh of course)?
I bet its some kind of fresh goat's milk baker's cheese to use in knafe.
oh my... Tomer, it's 2am here. You are giving me craving for a Knaffe. Where do I get Knaffe in NYC now? Oooohhhh!
Got it. Man, I love this town. There is nothing you can't find here
Quote from: iratherfly on November 29, 2011, 10:25:40 PM
That makes perfect sense. My previous machine was a Rancillio Sylvia v3. I hated it... (too picky about grinds and very poor temperature control that requires you to tem-surf or install a PID on it. Too much for that price point). It did however had great steam wand. How did you attach it to the Gaggia? They do sell a "latte art" Panerello wand but it is black plastic and my machine is all chrome and brushed stainless and it will look horrible... taking off the current wand and use the steam arm would have worked if only the arm was longer.
When I bought the new wand, it came with a small adaptor to allow me to attach it. Otherwise it was just a matter of unscrewing the old one and screwing in the new one. I'm surprised to hear about the Sylvia, I heard they are a great machine if not a bit fiddly as you say. Also that you really need a good grinder to get the best out of it.
One problem with Rancillio wand on the Cubika, which may not be there on other models, is that the new steam wand is quite long and I need to mount the machine up a bit higher so I can get the milk jug under the wand without tilting it and spilling milk everywhere. I used a couple of old books that were the same size as the base. Another problem is that it tends to run out of steam, literally. The Cubika has quite a small boiler - is yours a Cubika or another model?
btw I uploaded an old closeup I had of the new steam wand, this should give you a better idea:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7032/6429662849_0534f8ddef_b.jpg)
Edit: the shop that supplied the wand and the adapter and o-rings was Di Bartoli, at http://www.dibartoli.com.au/ (http://www.dibartoli.com.au/) . The owner there is very helpful and I'm sure if you rang he'd be able to assist, even if its only information regarding your model.
Further edit: Here is the page to the actual part itself, with the adapter: http://www.dibartoli.com.au/product/Rancilio_Silvia_Steam_Wand_with_Fitting (http://www.dibartoli.com.au/product/Rancilio_Silvia_Steam_Wand_with_Fitting)
Quote from: iratherfly on November 29, 2011, 10:25:40 PM
The problem is only the other way around. ...
About the stamp: Israel realize you may have problem traveling to these very few countries with which it has no ties. They have an official policy of NOT to stamp your passport (just ask when you hand it over in passport control). Usually if they see Syria and Malaysia stamps they will probably suggest it to you as a courtesy anyway. Instead of stamping it, they will just give you a note that you present back to them when you leave the country (then throw it in the trash). I have never heard of them refusing it but I have heard of people handing them American passports and not asking for a no-stamp receipt so they stamp it.
I happened to speak to two other Australians this morning, one had just come through Israel and his experience was good, smiles and all. He showed me the card that they stamp. The other however told me about his mother here that had been to Israel, trying to enter Syria, and although she didn't have any stamps in her passport she did have a small sticker that they place on the back cover which she forgot to remove, and she was promptly refused entry. Another friend told me that he asked not to stamp his passport, but they forgot, which meant he had to go through the hassle of replacing his passport to allow him to travel around the middle east. So yes, the issue may be the other way around but it's real and exists nonetheless.
Anyway I came here to talk about cheese, not politics! Forgive me.
Quote from: iratherfly on November 29, 2011, 10:25:40 PM
What are the most popular cheeses in Jordan and Syria (except Labaneh of course)?
Most of the cheeses I've seen are imported, apart from something they simply call "white cheese", which is sort of like fetta but softer and not quite as salty, usually sprinkled with black seeds. And this other white stringy stuff that's sort of wrapped in a ball. Sorry for my dodgy cheese terminology! I'll learn as I go along. After seeing some of the awesome pictures of the cheeses people have made on this forum, I'm quite excited about attempting a few myself.
cheers
sam
Quote from: Tomer1 on November 30, 2011, 05:16:49 AM
I bet its some kind of fresh goat's milk baker's cheese to use in knafe.
To be honest I haven't been too impressed with the kanafeh here, apart from one place ('Arafats). I've heard the best kanafeh is in Nablus.
Really?
I cant imagine how one can make a bad knafe given good ingridients.
I like honey syrup instead of plain sugar syrup. more flavor and depth. :)
Quote from: Tomer1 on November 30, 2011, 01:35:22 PM
Really?
I cant imagine how one can make a bad knafe given good ingridients.
You've never had the chewy stuff that gets passed off as kanafeh here in Jordan then sometimes! I'm not sure what cheese they're using but it doesn't seem right, sometimes it feels more like eating a pizza. We try to get the cream filled variety if we can, although that's not always available unless you make a large order.
Still, the best Knaffe I know is in Jaffa and Jerusalem.
Quote from: Sambo on November 30, 2011, 08:29:16 AMI'm surprised to hear about the Sylvia, I heard they are a great machine if not a bit fiddly as you say. Also that you really need a good grinder to get the best out of it.
Indeed they are. The problem is that this is sold as the best machine one can get for $650 and in reality, you can't make espresso on it with any pre-ground coffee. You can't use ESE pods in it and your $100 grinder won't work either. $200 also won't be good enough. You probably won't be able to get a good grind for less than $350 (slow flat burr like the Rancillio Rocky or the Gaggia MDF) so this is really a $1000 configuration. (There is an aftermarket ESE adaptopr you can get for it but it is permanent, you won't be able to switch from ESE to ground coffee). It's too bad because it's a well-constructed nice looking machine with lots of power in it. If it had the right grouphead (like the E61) it would be unbeatable. The other thing is that the temperature is so volitile that even with the perfect ground it can still brew over and under the temperature, giving you sour or bitter coffee. Most people fix it with a PID and YouTube has a million videos to explain how to temperature surf the Rancillio Sylvia. I found this maddening. I mean, for $650 couldn't they stick a thermometer in there? Far cheaper machines have them. How much does this part cost? Really? I just don't think anyone should spend so much for a machine that doesn't give you at the very least an OK espresso out of the box and you have to watch videos on YouTube to learn to cheat it to do what it was supposed to do in the first place...
Quote from: Sambo on November 30, 2011, 08:29:16 AMis yours a Cubika or another model?
No, I have the Gaggia Achille. It's a manual lever heat exchange machine. It's like a little Italian sports car. Brilliant design, extreme technology, hand made, gorgeous, expensive, high performance. And like an Italian sports car, it doesn't make any sense: Hot tempered, unreliable, leaky, picky, has handles and knobs in all the wrong places and all kinds of exposed areas that would burn you if you touch them. It's hilarious and I truly love it. It does single, double and ESE shots (great, I keep the decaf in ESE for guests). brews fantastic coffee with Gaggia commercial plated brass 58mm grouphead and portafilter and the steam, oh boy, it's extremely powerful and never ending. (ahhh, 1300W heating elements for an 800CC boiler???)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kqpP3h2mqsU/TtcIlnvcrRI/AAAAAAAABo8/oNQWZ4E6TgQ/s800/IMG_2144.JPG)
Quote from: Sambo on November 30, 2011, 08:29:16 AMbtw I uploaded an old closeup I had of the new steam wand, this should give you a better idea:
Thanks for the photo and links!
Quote from: Sambo on November 30, 2011, 08:29:16 AM
Most of the cheeses I've seen are imported, apart from something they simply call "white cheese", which is sort of like fetta but softer and not quite as salty, usually sprinkled with black seeds. And this other white stringy stuff that's sort of wrapped in a ball.
That's interesting. In Israel "white cheese" refers to Fromage Blanc which is a smooth spreadable cheese (unlike the equally named latin "Queso Blanco"). A very popular original Israeli cheese is called Tzfatit ("of Tzfat" or as the city is named in English "Sefad"). It sounds a lot like what you are describing. It was invented in the 1840's by settlers of the city of Sefad and it's really just a very gentle rennet-coagulated fresh brined cheese. It is one of the most popular dairy products in the country, used mainly in breakfast, sandwiches and salads and it often has toppings such as those black seeds which are Nigella (black cumin). Is this what it looks like?
(http://www.gvinot.co.il/sysvault/sysimg/prodImageMain01555.jpg)(http://www.gvinot.co.il/sysvault/sysnewsfiles/lahatherbs.jpg)
(http://www.lehamim.com/_Uploads/dbsArticles/magashgvinotkalot.jpg)
I wonder what is that stringy ball you were talking about. It sounds a bit like some haloumi hybrid. These are all so local and close to each other. All those cheeses were invented within a 200km radius.
Quote
No, I have the Gaggia Achille. It's a manual lever heat exchange machine.
That's an awesome machine! I knew about the Gaggia Factory lever but never knew about that one.
Quote
Is this what it looks like?
(http://www.lehamim.com/_Uploads/dbsArticles/magashgvinotkalot.jpg)
It looks like the cheese on the right, with the seeds sprinkled on top.
Quote
It sounds a bit like some haloumi hybrid.
That it could be, I'll find out more and get back to you.
Yes, I love that crazy machine. Achille Gaggia was the namesake and founder of Gaggia. He is the inventor of the modern Espresso machine of course and about a decade after he patented these heat exchange lever machines he was the first to patent an electric pump in an espresso machine - the modern espresso machine as we know it today. Gaggia made this model for some kind of birthday or anniversary of either him or the company - I can't remember. The look is based on a number of old Gaggia machines.
Here's a video I put on YouTube of me making Cappuccino on it this afternoon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4UF9T_fXvM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4UF9T_fXvM#)
Yea, I thought it would be the same cheese... very typical to this region