I have a bit a situation that is concerning me. I normally give my cheese as gifts to family and friends or bring it into my work to share.
Recently I have had a few friends approach me and ask me to specifically make something for them. I am torn about this in some ways, Milk is expensive here ($5/4L) and that is just for P/H, Cream line milk (If you can find it) is that for 2 L, the effort I have to put into it (I know that sounds like wining its too hard) and give it away. I get the impression that I will just do it because I have shared it in the past.
What do you do with such requests? Would it be wrong of me to have them supply the milk at least?
Ian
Although I'm new to this, I would say to do whatever makes you feel comfortable. Perhaps you could explain to them how much effort and time it takes to make cheese. Let them know that you'll be happy to share when you have the opportunity to do so, but that it isn't always the case.
If the money is more of an issue than the time, I would be honest and just say that it is quite an expensive hobby, and let them know that you'll be happy to do it for them if they provide the ingredients.
Ultimately, it comes to whatever seems like the right answer to you. I think it's a personal thing.
My other hobby is making Salami/salumi - being doing it for long time now, and I get in this situation quite often. What I do most of the time is I say "I will think about that" and just ignore this request. If they remind you, just say the usual: "Do not have time for that now" - works every single time.
Or just have guts to say: "I do it for my own pleasure, hence I do what I want and when I want." And from now don't give away your cheese to the people who cannot appreciate the gift.
Tell them to bring the milk and then help THEM make it. That way they see how much fun it is, but also how much work it is. You might get them hooked.
QuoteTell them to bring the milk and then help THEM make it.
So very much this. Share the love, teach the addiction, eat real food.
I was going to suggest the same thing as Sailor. Tell them you'll show them how to make it.
- Jeff
Thanks for all the input, it was helpful
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on January 27, 2012, 11:15:39 PM
Tell them to bring the milk and then help THEM make it. That way they see how much fun it is, but also how much work it is. You might get them hooked.
I mentioned it to a few of the "requesters" and their silence has been deafening. I will see what happens
Ian
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on January 27, 2012, 11:15:39 PM
Tell them to bring the milk and then help THEM make it. That way they see how much fun it is, but also how much work it is. You might get them hooked.
Don't want to be negative, but: tell them also they need to build a cave for aging, tell them to spent X amount of money on cultures, tell them to buy PH meter, all the aging equipment, thermometer, etc.
Many eaters are just too lazy to become makers.
Quote from: Tomer1 on February 01, 2012, 06:44:17 PM
Many eaters are just too lazy to become makers.
LOL ;D I love that "Eaters" love it
Yeah I think that you are completely within your rights here @Ian to (at the least!) request that they pay for the ingredients. And it would be a rather nice gesture to ask for them to make it...if anything then the cheese would be more satisfying.
I have to say, if I was asking for you to make me cheese, I would feel rather emabarassed about it if you didnt´charge me. I would demand that you take the money from me.
With that in mind, I am really new to cheesemaking! Anyone recommend any courses for me to take to improve my cheese making skills?
Who has time for courses? Just jump in head first and see what comes out edible!!
Quote from: Tobiasrer on February 04, 2012, 04:57:33 AM
Who has time for courses? Just jump in head first and see what comes out edible!!
I could probably find a day or two - but if you think there is no need, then what would you recommend? Any books which you find to be of use?
Ta... :)
I recommend a good class. Will help you avoid a lot of beginner mistakes.
Quote from: Sailor Con Queso on February 06, 2012, 02:35:28 PM
I recommend a good class. Will help you avoid a lot of beginner mistakes.
I imagine that would be a pretty lengthy, comprehensive class. With all the different cheese styles and their accompanying tips and techniques to absorb from:
- mozzarella and its ilk
- lactics
- rind development on hard cheeses
- washed rinds and smears
- aging techniques and environments
- contamination prevention, containment, and eradication
- appropriate culture selection
These are but a few of the subjects a class like that would have to address. I realize there are classes available now, but I have no idea how they could effectively cover the broad range of issues discussed in this forum. Most likely I would imagine they narrow their focus to a specific style and stick to that.
I'm glad I paid my money to John ;) for his ongoing cheese instruction provided through this forum. The advice and guidance provided by the forum members along with several good cheesemaking books have helped me immensely.
-Boofer-
Boofer, although there is no way that a single class could begin to address all these types of cheeses, I found that the class I took the summer before last was really helpful in getting tactile experience of what a clean break looked and felt like, and what the curd should look and feel like. There is a wealth of information on this forum, but it's hard to describe, or even show in pictures, what good curd is like. Having that start really helped me launch into making cheese. I recommend a class if available, just so you can experience first hand an experienced cheese maker's process.
Boof - an introductory cheese class teaches the fundamentals. Lactics, rind development, washed rinds, aging, and culture selection are way beyond the level of most beginners.
In my own beginner classes, I teach people enough to get them started. I want them to go home and actually make Mozz (successfully), yogurt, Ricotta, Queso Blanco, Mascarpone, and other simple cheeses. I show them the basics of making a large batch of a hard cheese. The actual cheese that we make will depend on my production schedule, but it may be a Gouda or a Lancashire, or a Derby or one of 35 other cheeses that I make. The actual cheese is not important. I'm not teaching them to make a Lancashire per se. I want them to walk away with a basic understanding of the process. I teach flocculation for example, and we talk a lot about how that differs from the recipe books. I certainly show them a "clean break", but I also teach them why time based recipes are wrong and irrelevant if you use the flocculation method. We talk about moisture and how every step in the process affects your finals outcome. We talk a lot about pH and acidity, but I don't want them to get too bogged down in the chemistry. I feel that beginners need to look at the big picture before they focus on details.
Without a good handle on fundamentals, a beginner will usually have a lot of failures and waste a lot of milk. Many get frustrated and quit because of poor results. So a good intro class is well worth the money.
Makes sense to me, Sailor.
Funny thing is I've never made "Mozz (successfully), yogurt, Ricotta, Queso Blanco, Mascarpone, and other simple cheeses". I tried mozz once, but I failed and haven't tried since...partly because I ensconced myself in other styles. I do intend to give it another go...one of these days.
I like the idea of clarifying how the book techniques may be wrong or misleading.
When I was thinking of pressing cheese, I had this idea that all of the cheeses I would be making would need to be squeezed within an inch of their lives. Over time I have found that not to be true or necessary. A lot of the cheeses I have been doing seem to be falling into the "less than 20 lb pressure" territory. Most lately have seen 5-15 lbs. The true value of the Dutch press I designed and built is that it delivers safe downward pressure. That's important if you've ever experienced lopsided cheeses from slipped weights. The minimum pressure it delivers is 11 lbs, while the theoretical maximum is upwards of 1800 lbs (lemme see that cheddar!). Emphasizing the need for differing pressing power for particular cheese styles is something that might be important too for beginners.
-Boofer-
We do talk about different kinds of presses, the pros and cons, and I will ALWAYS recommend a lever press because of its "safety" and efficiency. I tell students not to waste their time with screw type presses. We do get into weights for various cheeses and how that relates to the recipe books. My personal approach has changed considerably since my sailing trip to Italy last Summer. I visited a Parmesan cheese maker that changed the way that I looked at my entire processes. For a 100 pound Parm, they used a simple 15-20 pound weight with no press whatsoever.
I actually wished I had taken a course first, I dove head first into making a Gouda. It was a stellar catastrophe, I had no clue on what I was doing. I got a kit for Father's Day and thought lets dive in. The technical institute I work at is starting up cheese making courses. I plan on trying to take as many as I can, to increase my knowledge and skills, I think I should get a greater appreciation of the process and of other types of cheeses too. I was given a screw type of press for Christmas a 2 years ago. It did well for some of my cheeses, but now I usually just use weights instead. Again I think a course would have steered me away from it in the first place.
Ian
I do agree I dont think a class is a bad Idea, and if I could find one near by I would take it, Problem here is nothing near and the cost of what I have found.. I can buy alotta milk for that so can afford some 'learning' oportunities (nice talk for mistakes and screwups). Plus I question the experaince beyond the Ricki carrol kit she uses to teach with, when I asked question at the trade show she seemed a bit....
I always say you can never know too much! however you want to learn it!
Thank you gentlemen - I think I will take a course, I know of a place not too far away from me that offers day courses, and I think I will also ring around a few cheesemakers and ask if I can drop by for a look around their operations etc....Who knows, there could even be a career in it for me! :D. . . . . we can always dream . . . ;)
Quote from: Tobiasrer on February 07, 2012, 05:25:09 AM
...if I could find one near by I would take it, Problem here is nothing near and the cost of what I have found..
Depending on what part of Alberta you are in, NAIT is working on a Artisan Cheese Making Course. The instructor said they should have a class going soon. I don't know what the cost would be.
Hmm thanks, I live west of Red Deer so it makes Edmonton about 2hours, BUT again depending on the course fee and length could be a nice break from the everyday.
I agree on classes and reading (this forum, especially...I joined last week and I spend all my free time reading here).
I have taken a few classes, but they were not very comprehensive to say the least.