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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: anutcanfly on February 04, 2012, 01:19:25 AM

Title: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 04, 2012, 01:19:25 AM
My first gouda was crumbly, my second was made with store bought H/P milk and though the make went well it developed a bitter flavor.  I've noticed that no cheese I've made with raw cow or goat milk has developed bitterness.  So I'm trying again.  This time my pH meter started miss behaving.  That made the make very difficult!  I think the pH is fine, but it was way too moist!  I not quite sure how I managed that, but 5 1/2 pounds from 4 gallons milk...even given that it's Brown Swiss and winter, is a little much!  I'm sure it will taste wonderful, but I doubt it will be any good for extended aging. 

Has anyone tried aging a semi hard cheese for a year?  I would hate to accidently ruin a good cheese!

Gouda (Dave's recipe)              2/2/12

Yield after brining 5 pounds, 9 ounces
Floc x3
SG 1146

4 gallons raw Brown Swiss cow milk, pH 6.7
¼ tsp Kazu
¼ tsp chymosin (x3)

Warmed milk to 86 degrees, added culture and let rehydrate 5 minutes. 
Stir in and let ripen until pH drops approx 5-10 minutes.  30 minutes later pH was still 6.7 and temp was 86 degrees. Went ahead and proceeded with next step.

Added rennet and waited for floc.  Did first check at 8 minutes and it had begun—oops.  I figure it likely not to have flocculated much before that.
8 x 3 = 24 minutes, check for clean break and cut curd into 3/8 inch cubes.

Clean break at 24 minutes, so I cut the curd and let it rest for 5 minutes.  Temp 86 degrees and pH 6.7??  Recalibrated my meter and pH was 6.5

Stir 20 minutes or until pH is 6.4.  Started heating wash water to 130 degrees.  I had stirred 27 minutes before pH was 6.4, temp 85 degrees

My meter is fluctuating too much!  Forged ahead with washes.  Removed 5 cups of whey and replaced with 110 degree water as it still had not finish heating up.  Waited 5 minutes, then removed 6 cups whey and replaced with 6 cups 120 degree water.  Waited 5 minutes and replaced 6 cups whey with 6 cups 120 degree water. Temp 96 degrees

Whey was not at target temp of 102 degrees, so started heating the whey.  Reached target temp in 6 minutes.  Then stirred at 102 degrees for 20 minutes. 

Drained whey, catching it in a pot below the hoop.  Pulled press bad snug and placed follower on top.  Put hoop with curds in pot of whey.  Pressed under whey for 10 minutes at 8 pounds.

Moved hoop & curds to press and pressed for 30 minutes with 60 pounds.  Redressed and pressed for 30 minutes at 112 pounds, ph 6.4 Redressed and continued pressing at 112 lbs.  Press until pH is 5.6 to 5.7.  Meanwhile, soaked meter in cleaning solution and recalibrated it again.

First hour pH 6.4
2nd hour pH 6.3
3rd hour pH 6.0
4th hour pH 5.6   

Stopped pressing, weighed cheese (5 ½ pounds) and put in brine for 16 hours.
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 04, 2012, 01:34:33 AM
Hi anut,

I've found that washed curd cheeses (gouda and butterkase) can sometimes retain alot of water.  That's where the extra weight is probably comming from.  It will eventually loose this weight as it air dries and sits in the cave.  Keep track of the weight until it gets to where it should be, that will let you know it's shed the excess water. 

I've aged a gouda for a year (still have quite a bit of it at 14 months now) and it is really worth the wait.  I waxed mine, but I wouldn't do that until it shed the excess water right now.  Give it a month or two, then vac pac or wax, and wait.  Go for Christmas time or New Years.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 04, 2012, 01:51:57 AM
Hi Jeff,

Yes, I was thinking of keep on natural rind on this so I could shed some of the excess moisture.  That raises the question, how much weight does it need to lose to age well?
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 04, 2012, 02:36:56 AM
Hi anut,

I think the rule of thumb is about 1 lb / gallon?  So, a four gallon make should result in roughly a 4 lb yield.  Now, with 5.5 lbs, you're over by about 1.5 lbs.  I would think once it gets down to around 4 lbs, you're about where you would expect to be.  I've had some cheeses start out at 1.5 kg from 10 l, which is about 500g more than expected (1 kg / 10 litres).  They usually drop down to 1100g within a week or two, so I would think yours will do the same.  Age it a month then seal it and you should be fine, but check the weight just to be sure.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Cloversmilker on February 04, 2012, 04:15:29 AM
Your gouda will probably release some whey during brining.  The 'correct' weight after air drying may well be more than 4 pounds though.  My yields with winter milk have been consistently higher than the usual 1 pound per gallon rule. 

Your gouda looks very nice!  I made 2 goudas this week as well; a 9 or so pound behemoth on Tuesday, and a 4-5 pound wheel with black peppers yesterday.  Yesterday's gouda is still in brine.  I'll try to post pictures tomorrow.

Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Boofer on February 04, 2012, 05:39:27 AM
Quote from: anutcanfly on February 04, 2012, 01:19:25 AM
SG 1146
Pardon my ignorance. Specific Gravity? Scientific Gnotation? The number of Startled Gnomes?

Nice make detail and a good-looking cheese!

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: adalton on February 04, 2012, 01:32:00 PM
Although I am new at semi-hard & hard cheese making, I have made a number of cheeses with store bought milk and I think it's a waste of time using this type of milk, at least the brands around here in Southeastern Michigan.  Everyone of my cheeses outside of Ricotta or Mozzarella have been very dry, crumbly and more acidic than I wanted.  I will never use store bought again for any type of pressed cheese.

Andy
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 04, 2012, 05:54:15 PM
Hi Jeff, Cloversmilker, Boofer, Cheesemkr,  :)

Thanks for the feedback everyone!   :)  It may actually be near right for gouda. I lifted it to turn and thought about it.  If I ignore the weight and base the evaluation on how it feels I get a different picture.  It feels firm with just a little give.  Next week I'll try to remember to get the specific gravity of the milk and see what the total solids are.  Then I might be able to develop a better picture of what yield is reasonable.

Boofer, SG means specific gravity.  I was wondering how long it would take you to notice and complain.  ;)
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: MrsKK on February 05, 2012, 03:24:51 PM
But Startled Gnomes are so much more fun!

I get a higher yield with winter milk, too.  I was so looking forward to making milk this winter, then the cow decided a year of giving was enough and took an extended dry season.  Oh, well!

Kudos on coming up with a raw milk source! 
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 05, 2012, 05:16:17 PM
Hi MrsKK,

I got really lucky as the cow lives 2 miles away, and freshened in october.   I wouldn't have thought that would be good time to freshen a cow?  I read that in days past goats (English Alpines) had been bred to only have to freshen once.  It would sure be nice if breeders would try to select for that trait again.

Sorry Boofer,

I was in hurry and didn't realize I had not really answered your question.  I keep track of specific gravity on my make notes because I don't have a salometer and I don't refresh my brine after every make.  Given the big yields I'm getting I will likely start taking a brix reading of the milk to help guesstimate yields.  Brix + 2 = equals total solids in milk--approx. 
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: smilingcalico on February 06, 2012, 05:03:26 AM
Good looking cheese! No worries on the extra weight, but...the only caution is B.linens.  While it's traditional for a little orange glow, too much extra moisture gives b.linens a helping hand.  You might want to keep it lower at 50-60% until well dried to keep it at bay.  You can still age this cheese out if you don't develop rind issues. 
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Boofer on February 06, 2012, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: anutcanfly on February 04, 2012, 05:54:15 PM
Boofer, SG means specific gravity.  I was wondering how long it would take you to notice and complain.  ;)
Oh, snap!  :'(

Complain, hmmm? There is a difference between inquiring and complaining.  ;)

Quote from: anutcanfly on February 05, 2012, 05:16:17 PM
Sorry Boofer,

I was in hurry and didn't realize I had not really answered your question.  I keep track of specific gravity on my make notes because I don't have a salometer and I don't refresh my brine after every make.  Given the big yields I'm getting I will likely start taking a brix reading of the milk to help guesstimate yields.  Brix + 2 = equals total solids in milk--approx. 
Anut, thank you for that. That's pretty good to actually keep track if you reuse your brine. Might be a tip for others here who reuse brine.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 06, 2012, 04:39:54 PM
Yes Boofer,  I'll grant there's a difference but accusing you of inquiring wouldn't be quite as fun!  ;) 

It's a learning process just trying to figure out what info is going to be needed to problem solve with months down the line.

Thanks smilingcalico,

I've always been afraid of causing my rind to crack, but the lower humidity would make it easier to keep the free loaders at bay! I'm beginning to think it would be worthwhile to buy extra hygrometers so I can throw one in the various mini caves I have all over the place.  That way I can intercept problems, rather than just react to them!
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Boofer on February 06, 2012, 08:13:43 PM
You're such a tease, anut.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 06, 2012, 09:37:02 PM
 A)
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Likesspace on February 08, 2012, 01:56:06 AM
Hey, somebody used my recipe! Hooray!!

Man it's been so long since I've been able to get back into cheesemaking. Too many family commitments and too little time.
For the past two weekends I've made cheese and I think I'm enjoying it more than I ever have. Nearly a year and  a half off is way too long.
Last weekend I made a Gouda and added red and green peppers.
This past Saturday I made a Gouda and added dried onion flake.
I truly hope this Gouda recipe turns out for you since it is my "go to" cheese. It never fails to make a nice edible cheese that I'm proud to share with others.
I have found that heating the wash water to 140 degrees gets you closer to your 102 degree target temp. and I've also found that washing with 8 cups, 10 cups and 10 cups turns out a more creamy cheese.
I also agree that aging in excess of 6 months is the way to go with Gouda. It is definitely worth the wait although it tastes great in as little as three months.
I usually halve my 4 gallon wheels and eat one early on and age the other for at least 6 months to a year.
Thanks for giving my recipe a try and again, good luck!

Dave
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 08, 2012, 03:53:26 AM
That gouda looks good. Anut. I think you got a god cheese going there!
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 08, 2012, 05:48:14 AM
Thanks DeejayDebi,

Thanks Dave,

My meter going haywire made this make very challenging.  I was so preoccupied with it that I forgot to start heating the wash water soon enough and so it was not to temp when I needed it.  Thank you for the tips for the next make.  I'll be sure to use them.  From reading thru the threads your gouda is well loved.  Thank you for sharing it!  :)
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: MrsKK on February 08, 2012, 03:01:54 PM
"I got really lucky as the cow lives 2 miles away, and freshened in october.   I wouldn't have thought that would be good time to freshen a cow?  I read that in days past goats (English Alpines) had been bred to only have to freshen once.  It would sure be nice if breeders would try to select for that trait again."

Having a cow freshen is the point, when it happens can be inconvenient, but in this day and age they can calve at any time.  Our cow last calved November 27, 2010.  I didn't want a calf to be born that late in the year, but I had some trouble getting her bred back.  Better to have a winter calf than to have a cow dry off and not be pregnant at all.

I know that there are some dairy cows and some dairy goats that are very persistent milkers, but with "normal" dairy genetics these days, they breed for high production, rather than persistency.  A cow that is on a schedule to freshen once a year works well with the big dairy system.  They also give more milk over a short period of time and as time goes on, production dwindles, which is not attractive. 

This is on the commercial level, of course, but with the exception of a small population, they are the ones that determine what the rest of us get for milking livestock. 
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Boofer on February 08, 2012, 04:09:30 PM
Quote from: Likesspace on February 08, 2012, 01:56:06 AM
Man it's been so long since I've been able to get back into cheesemaking. Too many family commitments and too little time.
For the past two weekends I've made cheese and I think I'm enjoying it more than I ever have. Nearly a year and  a half off is way too long.
Welcome back, Dave! You've been missed.  :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 08, 2012, 06:18:37 PM
Thanks for the info MrsKK.  That's a shame.  The most troublesome part of having a few goats is what to do the kids every year! 
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Likesspace on February 09, 2012, 02:37:44 AM
Thanks for the welcome back, Boofer. It's good to see a familiar face.

I just noticed that you've left me in the dust when it comes to cheeses. A true friend would have refused all offers of cheeses until I returned, so that we could have advanced together.
It's okay, really. I won't hold it against you. :-)

Seriously, it's great to be making cheese again. Friday night I plan on making a Stilton and then a normal, regular, garden variety Gouda on Saturday. Right now I have a window with no family problems so I'm taking advantage of every free minute.

Thanks again for the welcome.

Dave
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 09, 2012, 02:52:02 AM
Hello Dave -

Good to see you again. I haven't been in much so didn't know you had been MIA all this time. I do believe I used  a combination of your gouda recipe and my parmesan for my Gougiano Zafferano which is coming up on 2 years old in April. So I guess you've been sitting on the shelf making cheese all along!
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 09, 2012, 05:05:26 AM
Wow! 2 years? You have patience down pat!  I'll have to google that cheese, I've never heard of it before.
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 12, 2012, 10:02:12 PM
I remembered to measure total solids in the milk this week.  The milk I used to use (store bought P\H) was 11% total solids.  The raw Brown Swiss cow milk I use now was 13.5% total solids.  13.5/11=1.23  4(1.23)= 4.92  So the four gallons of milk that would produce a 4 pound wheel, will now produce and 4.92 pound wheel.   

  :o Wow! What a difference!  No wonder I keep thinking I've missed my target moisture by a mile! I think I will make a point of test for total solids though out the year and see what happens.
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 26, 2012, 06:57:25 PM
I checked this cheeses weight and was surprised/happy to see that it had dropped almost a pound in the last 3 weeks.  5 pounds, 10 ounces to 4 pounds, 13 ounces.  This is the first time I have tried keeping a cheese at 75% humidity and it worked perfectly.  Cheese developed a good rind quickly and was easy to brush free of mold.  I never did need to wipe it with salt/vinegar.  No signs of cracking, but I'm now brushing cheese cream on it as I think it's dumped enough weight, and moving it to my regular cave at around 90% humidity.
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 26, 2012, 07:06:16 PM
Quote from: anutcanfly on February 09, 2012, 05:05:26 AM
Wow! 2 years? You have patience down pat!  I'll have to google that cheese, I've never heard of it before.

You won't find that cheese on google Anut, unless someone else is using my recipe it is one of my own designs. It's hopefully to be an aged gouda  with the nutty,  creamy, fruity flavor of a Parmigiano Reggiano with saffron. I give all my crazy cheeses Italian names. Gougiano is a combination of gouda and reggiano, and  Zafferano means saffron in Italian - so I named it Gougiano Zafferano!
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on February 26, 2012, 07:11:26 PM
That sounds yummy! I hope it's every thing and more than you hoped for!   :)
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Boofer on March 02, 2012, 01:20:48 AM
Quote from: DeejayDebi on February 26, 2012, 07:06:16 PM
It's hopefully to be an aged gouda  with the nutty,  creamy, fruity flavor of a Parmigiano Reggiano with saffron. I give all my crazy cheeses Italian names. Gougiano is a combination of gouda and reggiano, and  Zafferano means saffron in Italian - so I named it Gougiano Zafferano!
Well now you've got me going, Debi! Your description of the "nutty, creamy, fruity flavor" intrigues me. What kind of flavor does saffron offer to the cheese? I'm afraid I'm a bit of a noob with that.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 07, 2012, 05:03:33 AM
Boy Boofer tht's a tough one saffron is sort of sweet and sort of bitter if over done and adds a nice color and aroma. Saffron tatses like saffron. I like the looks of the threads in the cheese and the yellow color it adds too.
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Boofer on March 07, 2012, 07:57:37 AM
Quote from: DeejayDebi on March 07, 2012, 05:03:33 AM
Boy Boofer tht's a tough one saffron is sort of sweet and sort of bitter if over done and adds a nice color and aroma. Saffron tatses like saffron. I like the looks of the threads in the cheese and the yellow color it adds too.
Perhaps the sensory description is "savory". It maybe "rounds out" the flavor?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 11, 2012, 02:02:04 AM
Not sure Boof I have never quite managed to pin down "Savory."
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on May 07, 2012, 09:07:11 PM
I just cut into my 3rd Gouda and I really liked the flavor!  Texture was very nice and the flavor gets even better when melted!  This cheese is going back to age awhile longer... this is going to wonderful!  8)
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: MacGruff on May 07, 2012, 11:09:30 PM
Looking Yummy!!!

When can I come over for some grilled cheese sandwiches, and nibbles?

A)

Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on May 07, 2012, 11:43:46 PM
 ;D  If you're willing to pay airfare to come here and sample cheese, I would have no recourse but to let you try every last one in my cave! What a lunatic show of dedication--I'm impressed!  ;)
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: smilingcalico on May 07, 2012, 11:47:38 PM
Gouda seems to do well at 4 months too. When I'd have a 4 month wheel alongside a 2 month wheel, the customers always bought the 4 month. It peaks again at 6 months, a year, and 18 months.
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Boofer on May 08, 2012, 12:15:37 AM
Quote from: smilingcalico on May 07, 2012, 11:47:38 PM
Gouda seems to do well at 4 months too. When I'd have a 4 month wheel alongside a 2 month wheel, the customers always bought the 4 month. It peaks again at 6 months, a year, and 18 months.
I wonder if that could be said for something like a Leiden too? It's pretty close to a Gouda.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: smilingcalico on May 08, 2012, 07:05:03 AM
I'd imagine so, it's the cumin that makes the difference there.  I think you'd have to test for a certainty just due to the spice, but with black pepper, I can say it holds up well!
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Caseus on May 10, 2012, 08:38:53 PM
That is a beautiful cheese, anut, with a beautiful and clean looking rind.  If I may ask, what was your rind treatment / aging method?  Wax, vacuum, oil?  I scanned over the entire thread but didn't find where you mentioned that.  Sorry if I just overlooked it.

It looks like wax.  I'm planning a gouda, and waxing is part of the plan, so that's why I'm asking.
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on May 11, 2012, 03:46:45 PM
Thank you Caseus.  I'm using two coats of cheese cream.  Much easier to apply, peels off easy and it breaths!  So cheeses will have some moisture loss over time, just as they would with a natural rind. So far I'm pretty happy with it.  Moisture can get in, so I use a grease pencil to mark cheeses, and am careful to keep condensation off them.
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Caseus on May 11, 2012, 05:03:00 PM
Is that a polyvinyl acetate (PVAc) product like what hoeklijn uses?  A plastic coating, in other words?  Or is it something different? 

This Paracoat (https://www.dairyconnection.com/commerce/catalog.jsp?catId=8) product (scroll way down the page to find it) from Dairy Connection I believe is PVAc.

This Cheese coating from CSK (Holland) (http://www.glengarrycheesemaking.on.ca/coatings.htm) from Glengarry could be the same, but there is no detailed description. 

Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: Boofer on May 12, 2012, 03:14:02 PM
Quote from: anutcanfly on May 11, 2012, 03:46:45 PM
I'm using two coats of cheese cream.  Much easier to apply, peels off easy and it breaths!  So cheeses will have some moisture loss over time, just as they would with a natural rind. So far I'm pretty happy with it.  Moisture can get in, so I use a grease pencil to mark cheeses, and am careful to keep condensation off them.
So that's all you're using for rind protection? And it does breathe? Does the one you're using contain natamycin? Where did you get it and what is it called?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gouda, 3rd times the charm?
Post by: anutcanfly on May 12, 2012, 03:50:13 PM
I got mine from Hoeggers Supply Co.  On their site they call it cheese coating, but I've seen what is likely the same product under different names cheese cream, or paracoat.  Mine is without natamycin, and yes, it really does breath.  Several cheeses have interesting colors on top because I used a marker on them and it just went right thru and onto the cheese!