Many people here have vouched for using a vacuum bag system instead of waxing various kinds of cheese. My question is what should be done if you vacuum seal in terms of aging?
Is it still a good idea to keep it in a temp range of 50-55 degrees and a humidity level of 80% or higher? Maybe once you vacuum seal, you should just put the cheese in the regular fridge?
I have also seen some recommendations from people who told me to first age the cheese in a 'cave' for a few weeks to a few months, and only then vacuum seal it. Again, the question remains: Once vacuum sealed, does it need to be in a carefully controlled environment?
Any help appreciated! Thanks!
QuoteIs it still a good idea to keep it in a temp range of 50-55 degrees and a humidity level of 80% or higher? Maybe once you vacuum seal, you should just put the cheese in the regular fridge?
Yes keep them in your cheese fridge.
QuoteI have also seen some recommendations from people who told me to first age the cheese in a 'cave' for a few weeks to a few months, and only then vacuum seal it. Again, the question remains: Once vacuum sealed, does it need to be in a carefully controlled environment?
You can cut them in wedges and vacuum pack. I would still keep it in the cheese fridge if I am not going to consume them immediately.
How is the humidity in your cave? Why are you vacuum packing them?
MacGruff,
Once you vac bag, humidity is not an issue, but temperature is still very important. Unless you plan on aging for years, you cannot age cheese in your regular refrigerator.
I personally go natural rind for a month and then vac bag.
Macgruff_ I totally agree with Sailor and follow a similar workflow. That is I age with a natural rind for a month or longer and then vacuum bag when I want to age long term without the worry of having the wheel dry out too much. Like Sailor has already mentioned, the humidity will then not be a concern, but the temperature that you age at will still need to be closely regulated as it will ultimately determine how long you will need to age your wheels.
I have a vacuum sealer. I also have a dorm-stye fridge that I found I can keep at between 50-56 degrees F. I have managed to find ways to keep the humidity consistently in the 85%+ Rh.
Glancing at my hydrometer just now, the readings are 50.0 temp and 91% humidity.
I was asking because I have had a terrible time keeping blue and black mold off my cheeses. Another problem I have is that I travel for business about 30-35% of the time and am away from the house for a week at a time. When I come back, the cheese wheels are compeltely festooned with mold. I wipe it off with vinegar and salt, but some still remains settled in dips in the cheese and so I know it will be back within a day or two. Since I cannot consistently keep it clear, I was hoping to vacuum seal it and be able to forget it.
For now, I have three cheeses in the cave. Each in a vacuum pack. But I wonder if I packaged them up too quickly. I have a Havarti that I made two months ago; a Gouda from about 5 weeks ago, and a Colby that's two weeks old.
Why do you like the natural rind? is this not kind of a waste, as some of the rind would not be eaten? wouldnt vac packing not save that and alot of the hassel of maintaing humidity and checking? I am asking as I have no experiance now so... wanna see what the pro's do ;-)
I tried out cheese cream as an alternative to wax and vacuum packing and so far its been working well. It peels off, so I don't lose the rind and it does breath, as the marker I used went right thru and stained the cheese. I'll use a grease pencils from now on. I've been using one layer and so far that's been enough. I know more as time passes.
ANut- The cheese cream breathes a little too well. Watch your humidity or the cheese will dry out and get hard.
Thanks for the heads up Sailor. I was hoping that would be the case! I keep my cave humid as I don't use cheese cream until the cheese is 2 to 3 weeks old. It's weird, but now that my cave is almost full, I have trouble keeping the humidity down to 85%. I don't have any water in the cave and all surfaces are dry. These days I have to leave the door open for a while each day to bring the humidity down. Any idea's why that is???
Cheeses constantly give off some moisture, especially in the early stages of aging. The more you have, the higher the humidity.
That's what has me stymied, except for 2 cheese cream treated cheeses, the rest of the cheeses in there are vacuum packed! I keep the natural rinds cheeses in containers in an unheated room of the house during the winter months.
anutcanfly - I experienced the exact same thing.
When I had one cheese in the cave, I was struggling to get the humidity over 80%. As soon as I put the second cheese in, the humidity zoomed to 90%+.
AND all my cheeses are vacuum sealed right now!!! ???
Anyway, I have three cheeses in there at this moment and my Hygrometer is reading 92%.
Yep. Last winter I had to keep a pan of water in my cave to keep it at 85% Well it's nice to not to be the only one perplexed.
I watched a Utube where they made swiss cheese and they vacuum sealed it straight away? What I like is I can see if it is developing any problems unlike when you wax
You can see through natural color wax, especially if you just use a couple of thin coats.
I have a vacuum bagger, but I haven't attempted that method yet. I will eventually, but right now I'm just waxing because that's how I started. I've only made four cheeses, so no great amount of experience here yet. :)
What I'd like to know is how that cream works, what it's made of, whether it has mold-inhibiting additives (e.g., Natamycin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natamycin)), and where I can get it. So long as its not something I'd want to put in my mouth, I might be interested in trying it.
Quote from: Caseus on April 27, 2012, 07:18:11 PM
What I'd like to know is how that cream works, what it's made of, whether it has mold-inhibiting additives (e.g., Natamycin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natamycin)), and where I can get it. So long as its not something I'd want to put in my mouth, I might be interested in trying it.
You might check member
Hoeklijn for more details on how it's used. He uses it.
I've attached one source (http://thecheesemaker.com/supplies.htm) of the coating.
-Boofer-
Some have Natamycin (mold inhibitor) and some don't, so you have to ask the supplier. I hate the cream because it digs in and makes the rind inedible.
That was the first time I'd really explored that cheesemaker site (http://thecheesemaker.com/supplies.htm), Boofer. They carry a fascinating array of tempting goodies. 8)
$75 for 5 pounds of cream wax seems expensive unless a little goes a long way, in which case it might be a lifetime supply. I rather suspect that is the case. There's no indication there of shelf life or keeping qualities, so that is something I'd consider. But I did find a smaller (albeit more expensiver per pound) 500 gram jar of it here (http://www.homesteadersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=108&cPath=0_193#googlebase), and it appears that it comes from Glengarry. Anyway, not hard to find.
Making the rind inedible is a big consideration for me because I am making only small cheeses right now (2 gallon batches). The smaller the cheese, the greater the loss due to inedible rind.
I vac packed my couple of cheeses this past weekend after fighting with humidity and giving up. The highest I was able to get anything was 70%. My cave is a little dorm fridge. Now I'm fighting with temp. I am trying to avoid buying a temp controller, but the warmest I've gotten it is 45F. Is that too cold? It really isn't big enough to age cheese for years unless I stop making now. I would prefer to age 3-6 months on 'regularly made' items.
Quote from: knipknup on April 28, 2012, 12:49:01 AM
I vac packed my couple of cheeses this past weekend after fighting with humidity and giving up. The highest I was able to get anything was 70%. My cave is a little dorm fridge. Now I'm fighting with temp. I am trying to avoid buying a temp controller, but the warmest I've gotten it is 45F. Is that too cold? It really isn't big enough to age cheese for years unless I stop making now. I would prefer to age 3-6 months on 'regularly made' items.
I have two 4.5 cu ft "dorm" fridges as caves. They each have a temp controller that keeps the temp around 52F. The ambient humidity inside is around 80%, but my new cheeses are in their own little
minicaves which keeps them comfy at RH around 98%. Right now that's important for the blues I have in there.
You can get by without a temp controller for now, but the cheeses will take longer to ripen. There are a lot of choices for cheeses that ripen in 3-6 months. I opened my Leiden recently after only 9 weeks. There are blues, lactics, Camembert, Reblochon, and others that ripen fairly quickly. Very rarely do I see a cheese that has to go for 12 months and pretty much never for
years. That third pic shows some possible candidates for long-term affinage on the shelf below the minicave (Fourme d'Ambert #1, little guy): Cheddar #1, Cheddar #2, and Double Gloucester #1. Humidity isn't an issue for them because they're enclosed in vacuum bags.
-Boofer-
I also use a mini fridge as my cave. Many of the cheeses I make start out in a ripening container - lidded plastic box with a rack in the bottom to keep the cheese wheel out of any moisture. I really like the natural rind that forms in the ripening box. When they come out of that, I usually give them about a week to dry up a bit more, then coat them with lard or butter. It is a bit messy, but tends to dry out eventually. Once that happens at around the 2-3 month mark, I'm more comfortable with vacuum sealing the cheese.
My mini fridge is rapidly filling up now that the cow is back in milk. I've got a Colby and a Tomme that are ready to be vac sealed, plus a half-wheel of Gouda that's already been vacuum packed - when I make more cheese that needs to be aged, the oldest will go into the warmest part of the regular fridge. Not ideal, but it works for the time being.
My mini-fridge is probably only 1 sqft. It was only $20 and I got what I paid for. I had a big 'ol fridge for lagering beers and it raised my energy bills, so I went little this time. I may upgrade in a while, but not now.
Humidity is my biggest issue. I can't seem to get the humidity higher than 70%. I am encouraged by the posts that state higher with more cheese (even with all vac sealed) in the fridge, which is probably a function of the volume going down. We'll see if this happens here as well.
Working on a fontina today.