I have made 4 wheels of colby in the last few days and have tried using the floculation method . I notice that the curd seems to be softer and a bit more fragile than when I was using the clean break method . Is this normal? My first batch had a floc time of 9 1/2 minutes so i decreased the rennet and the second batch timed at 13 1/2 minutes and for both cheeses I used a multiplier of 3.25 . I am looking forward to tasting them to see if this method made any difference in taste or consistency.
milk was P/H and CaCl was added
It is just a guide. Use whichever methods works best for you. I do both but find I lean toward clean break.
Do you find any difference in taste or aging time either way? thanks
Jim-Debi is correct-use which ever method you feel the most comfortable with. I think that the clean break method takes more practice in determining the correct point on a consistent basis, where the spinning bowl method is pretty much straight forward. With an apology to Debi, I usually use that method. Of course it is totally possible for you to use the spinning bowl method to find the point you are looking for and then compare it to the spinning bowl method. I'm not sure from your post if the times were from which method but the times went in the correct direction with the reduction of rennet. I was wondering if perhaps the point where you determined a clean break was a little early and therefor you felt that the other method gave too soft a curd. If all the make was the same up to that point then the longer flocc time will give you a moister curd. Typically a moister cheese will be aged for less time. I do not make Colby so I can't speak to what flocc time and multiplier would give you the best cheese.
Consider this. The basic equation is milk + bacteria + rennet and a "clean break" is going to happen at pretty much the same time for most cheeses, say 30 minutes. So, when I make a Stilton for example, do I cut the curd at 30 minutes just because I have achieved a "clean break"? Of course not. In fact I let my milk set for a full 2 hours before doing anything with my blue curds. The additional set time increases the moisture content and produces a very creamy end product. I do 5 different kinds of English Cheddars. I produce my Cheshire in a traditional English fashion - dry and a little crumbly, so I use a floc multiplier of 3. On the other hand my Wensleydale is a softer, sweeter cheese that uses aromatic cultures. To get the additional moisture, I use a multiplier of 4. If I simply used the clean break method, I would not have the consistent control over the final moisture in the finished cheese.
DJ is right. Floc multipliers are just a guide, but as a cheesemaker the technique will give you the ability to tweak your cheeses however you want.
I agree with the guys. I use the clean break method but I have been doing it that way for almost 34 years! It's not just about the cheese coming cleanly away from the knife for me it's about the feel and look of the curds when they do and the way the whey puddles. Not something I could easily exaplain. Just experiance. I started doing this before there was a source to learn from so I taught myself ways to figure it out. Much like cooking without measuring things - you do it for so long you just know. I never even heard the word Flocculation until I came here!
I do from time to time cross check myself with the spinning bowl and the pH meters just to see how close my eye is to the science of it all and I am usually right on, but I have done it for a long time. One thing I use the spining bowl for is to not poke holes in my curd before its time! My quest here is to help others and learn about new styles of cheese. Where I grew up is was pretty much only Italian cheeses and a bad commercial swiss or American thrown in. Probably why most of my cheeses are of Italian origin.
Thank you for all the input guys . As I am still learning , the variations may well be due to something totally different that what I am attributing them to. I am still trying to " standardize " everything so that the only variables I have are the ones I want . Good thing about it ( or bad ) is I get to eat all the lessons!!!
Quote from: jim81147 on March 17, 2012, 10:05:53 PM
Good thing about it ( or bad ) is I get to eat all the lessons!!!
And as long and you can - it's a winner1
I was making my 2nd attempt at Gouda this past week and decided to use Floc time instead of clean break, based upon all the discussion on this board. I want to understand this right, so here is what occurred:
First I should say I was using tablet Rennet, and started w/ 2 gal of Whole milk, following my particular recipe. I used 1/2 tablet for 2 gal of milk, I was looking for a floc time of 10 - 15 min, but it occurred at 4.8 min using spinning cup method! The milk was at 86 degrees w/ CaCl. The recipe called for cutting curds at 1-2 hrs, depending on consistancy. If I was using Floc time, I should have cut the curd at about 15 minutes (Multp 3 x 4.5) = 14.4, but since it was so way off, I deferred to the recipe suggestion and cut the curds at 1 hr as suggested.
My question is, Should I reduce the Rennet down to 1/4 tab for 2 gal milk under these conditions, and see if I can get the floc time longer to about 15 - 20 min? Is that right?
The point of the floc method is to trust what the spinning bowl is telling you. The floc of just 4.8 minutes told you that the coagulation was going much faster than it should have, so you used WAY too much rennet. Tabs are notoriously difficult to work with. I would get some liquid rennet ASAP. By cutting so much later than the floc time called for, you can anticipate a lot of excess moisture in the cheese, and it will take much longer to age. Too much rennet can often cause bitterness.
Thats what I thought Sailor con Queso, I have some double strength liquid veg rennet , but did not use it . Is there a equivalence figure you can use to go from tablet to liquid? I didn't want to change methodology to a different Rennet in the 2 cheeses, figuring that would be a constant. The temps were different between the 2 cheeses also, my first one was at 90 degrees, and this one was at 86 degrees, so technically the second one should have flocked later at the lower temp, but still is obviously too much. My first cheese, did not note floc time because I went from straight recipe and was not knowledgeable about this method yet.