Okay, let's try this again.
Today I'm remaking Fourme d'Amberg. My first effort from last Friday has barely dried in the cave. I am determined to correct a few missteps with this make and, at the same time, have comparative cheeses approaching maturity simultaneously. Woo woo!
The main problem I faced a week ago was a pH that declined at a snail's pace. At the end, I had spent around 18 hours tending to that cheese, hoping for the pH to drop.
This make will start off smaller. I am using half the milk and moving to the large Bûcheron mold which is smaller in volume than the Cheddar-Swiss mold I used last week. I will be using dry cultures to acidify rather than mother culture. I am still learning the ins and outs of MCs so that might be part of the problem. I will be using a slurry from a Fourme d'Amberg I just happened to have in my fridge.
While I was picking up my milk today, I was fortunate to be able to also get the injector and what I expected to be difficult to find...Vouvray wine. I won't inject the cheese I did last Friday, but I will for today's make.
Following Sailor's advice, I have included a little helveticus in this make to help stabilize proteolysis and acidify by converting residual lactose. I'm hoping the LM057 will create cavities which the blue can then fill.
Starting milk pH: 6.83
2 gallons Twin Brook Creamery whole milk
1 pint Twin Brook Creamery whipping cream
¼ tsp Kazu (LL, LC, LD, LH)
1/32 tsp LM057
¼ tsp CACL
1/32 tsp Renco dry calf rennet
I am again loosely following the recipe from 200 Easy Homemade Cheeses.
Heated milk to 90°F. Stirred in cultures and slurry.
Preripen for 15 min.
pH: 6.40 (target: 6.45)
Stir in CACL and rennet.
Floc time: 10 minutes
Using 4x factor, amount of time to wait before cutting: 40 minutes
pH: ___?___ (target: 6.45) I meant to record the pH, but it slipped by.
Cut curds to ½ inch.
Maintain 90°F, stirring gently for 1 hour 20 minutes until curds are small and firm. Let settle. Curds are not as dry and rubbery as those in last week's make.
pH: 5.90 (target: 6.40) (Here I was waiting for the pH to drop...and then...BAM! This is after 5 hours ripening.)
Remove whey down to surface of curds, reserving 1 gallon whey for brine.
Ladle curds into prepared Bûcheron mold lined with Plyban (the Plyban didn't work so I ditched it.). For the record, I could have used a bit more curd to fill the mold...perhaps another half gallon milk.
Mold sits on a small needlepoint mat which is placed in a small kettle for pressing. Pressing will be done in the kettle using the Dutch press with just the weight of the lever arm and piston (11lbs). Once all curds are in the mold, press for 1 hour, redress, and press for 8 additional hours.
pH: 5.10 (target: 4.85)
After pressing, remove the cheese from the mold and brine it for 4 hours, flip it, and brine for 4 more hours.
Dry it at room temperature for 2 days.
Pierce it with prepared knitting needle.
Place it in a minicave and into one of the caves for ripening.
-Boofer-
This will be an interesting experiment. It's a good thing this one is smaller, as that will ensure you don't confuse the two when they both start walking around! :) Of course, any difference could be due to the form factor I suppose? Oh well, one can always make another if necessary. It's all in the name of science.
- Jeff
Looks very nice Boof after reading about your last one and injecting it got me thinkin hec of an idea on the turkey injector :)
just another tool I will have to justify to the wife :-\
Keep us posted Boofer! My Fourme d'Ambert's are still in the cave, however, I don't think they deserve the name. Because I had to use my Gouda moulds, they don't have the right shape and they even became a bit flatter. But they are blue, absolutely! It's my first try with a real blue, I only made Cambozola with PR until now. But today I bought one meter of PVC pipe 6 1/4 inch wide and started to make some moulds out of it. First one will be for Blue Stilton and then I will make some Camembert moulds....
Quote from: JeffHamm on April 14, 2012, 07:13:54 AM
This will be an interesting experiment. It's a good thing this one is smaller, as that will ensure you don't confuse the two when they both start walking around! :) Of course, any difference could be due to the form factor I suppose? Oh well, one can always make another if necessary. It's all in the name of science.
- Jeff
The form factor is different, the blue slurry is different, this one will be injected with
Vouvray, and the acidifying culture is different. But, yes, all in the name of science...cheese science.
Quote from: hoeklijn on April 14, 2012, 04:09:45 PM
Keep us posted Boofer! My Fourme d'Ambert's are still in the cave, however, I don't think they deserve the name. Because I had to use my Gouda moulds, they don't have the right shape and they even became a bit flatter. But they are blue, absolutely! It's my first try with a real blue, I only made Cambozola with PR until now. But today I bought one meter of PVC pipe 6 1/4 inch wide and started to make some moulds out of it. First one will be for Blue Stilton and then I will make some Camembert moulds....
Alright! Looking forward to tracking your progress and seeing those Fourme d'Ambert cheeses you are working on now.
With the height of this Fourme d'Ambert cheese I ran into process problems I had not encountered with any of my previous 46 cheeses. Most of my previous cheeses had used a standard Tomme mold or something equally small. Locating a minicave (ripening box) would be difficult. Then, if I found a suitable one, how could I fit it into my caves? I would have to remove a shelf or two. That was not an option. I have cheeses on all the shelves. Then I saw that there was space in the door of the white cave for, I guess, a gallon of milk. Voilà! Problem solved...shelves stay in place...and I already had the minicave. I love it! 8)
-Boofer-
Happened across this thread (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6906.0.html) that seems to give a shout out for the Vouvray treatment. I am encouraged.
-Boofer-
Pierced this afternoon and put into the cave. When withdrawing the knitting needle, there was a slight creaminess adhering to it. I realize it is really early in the course of events, but that shows real promise for this cheese. I do believe it is going to be softer and creamier than the Reluctant (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9484.0.html) one.
Fingers crossed.
-Boofer-
Good luck Boofer!
Good looking Fourme, Boof! I haven't been around for awhile--nice to see your progression and love your pics!. This is such a tasty cheese--I did inject (as opposed to cutting and pouring). Don't skimp on the Vouvray quality--it is cheese, the center of the universe! My success was that I formed the (veining) holes with a skewer; because it is a creamier cheese, I re-poked several times. The Vouvray was not injected until week four--after I could see that the veins had formed.
Keep us posted!
So many cheeses not enough time :-\
Quote from: Brie on April 25, 2012, 01:27:06 AM
Good looking Fourme, Boof! I haven't been around for awhile--nice to see your progression and love your pics!. This is such a tasty cheese--I did inject (as opposed to cutting and pouring). Don't skimp on the Vouvray quality--it is cheese, the center of the universe! My success was that I formed the (veining) holes with a skewer; because it is a creamier cheese, I re-poked several times. The Vouvray was not injected until week four--after I could see that the veins had formed.
Keep us posted!
Thanks, Brie. I'm following your lead. Thanks for the tip on when to inject...I wasn't sure about that.
I had two types of Vouvray to pick from at my local store. I picked both. I'll have to sample each one to know what to go with. ;)
After your Fourme experiences, you
would recommend injecting with Vouvray...yes? I have two makes and intended to only inject one so I could possibly compare/distinguish the difference.
So what have you been up to? We've missed you.
-Boofer-
Boofer your slury just made me shiver! :-\
Hi Brie!
Quote from: DeejayDebi on April 26, 2012, 03:12:14 AM
Boofer your slury just made me shiver! :-\
Why?
-Boofer-
And I'm a silly southern sailor savoring slurry shiver. 8)
dang sailor! I can't even write that! let alone say it! Good looking cheese Boof. I will have to admit tho, I had to wikipedia Fourme d' Ambert to find out what it was and as far as I know, I've never even seen a bottle of Vouvray. You people are really bringing culture to this redneck!
Yes, Boof, I do recommend injecting; although you will see the wine come out the sides of the cheese during the process!. Pat dry and let it dry a bit before taking back to the cave. I did try the "pouring" method and found the cheese to become soggy. I actually used a turkey injector that was great!.
As for me--after spending 2 years making 3 cheeses per week, I did have a bit of a meltdown (fondue?), so I had to back away a bit. I'm back again (when my milk man allows), and made a Gouda and Muenster last weekend. Happy to be back with my friends--I have missed you all!
Quote from: Brie on April 28, 2012, 04:28:29 AM
I'm back again (when my milk man allows), and made a Gouda and Muenster last weekend. Happy to be back with my friends--I have missed you all!
Welcome back, Brie.
I'm looking forward to seeing how your Muenster progresses.
-Boofer-
Happened across this thread that discusses injecting (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4394.0.html). Thought I should include it in here for reference.
I'm a little concerned that the blue growth in this make is so slow. The difference between this make and the earlier one (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9484.0.html), is that I mixed the slurry with the curds on that one and I mixed it in with the milk with this one. Hmmm. They were different cultures in the slurries of course.
I was scheduled to start injecting this one next week, but if the blue isn't more advanced by then, I may have to postpone the Vouvray innoculation. :(
I am wiping the moisture off the walls regularly so RH shouldn't be an issue. Temperature is around 53F. I've tried to spread the blue around by gently massaging the cheese when I remove moisture from the minicave. The piercings appear to be staying open fairly well, but not a lot of blue is visible at the openings.
Patience, lad....
-Boofer-
Four weeks gone....
Time for a change. While preparing my breakfast this morning, I looked at the Blue Castello I was cutting and decided that the stubborn Fourme d'Ambert could use a little help right about now. I took a small piece from the inner Castello and made a slurry with a little distilled water. I then painted the top of the cheese. I had repierced it earlier this morning so there were good open holes and tunnels.
The cheese paste seemed quite soft and creamy with the piercing. I hope the new life introduced today can take hold and finally give it the blue it needs. I can't really inject the cheese unless I see some blue.
-Boofer-
You could have just scraped some Castello cheese on your cheese instead of a slurry. I've tried the scraping method before and it works. Its ok if your cheese didn't have blue mold on the outside, internal bluing is a lot more important. Btw Blue mold doesn't like its feet wet. Also by making the rind wet, you'll probably attract unwanted micro organisms.
Quote from: Aris on May 12, 2012, 08:16:26 PM
You could have just scraped some Castello cheese on your cheese instead of a slurry. I've tried the scraping method before and it works. Its ok if your cheese didn't have blue mold on the outside, internal bluing is a lot more important. Btw Blue mold doesn't like its feet wet. Also by making the rind wet, you'll probably attract unwanted micro organisms.
So how do the makers of Fourme d'Ambert get away with injecting their blue cheeses with
wet Vouvray wine?
-Boofer-
Quote from: Boofer on May 13, 2012, 05:53:34 AM
Quote from: Aris on May 12, 2012, 08:16:26 PM
You could have just scraped some Castello cheese on your cheese instead of a slurry. I've tried the scraping method before and it works. Its ok if your cheese didn't have blue mold on the outside, internal bluing is a lot more important. Btw Blue mold doesn't like its feet wet. Also by making the rind wet, you'll probably attract unwanted micro organisms.
So how do the makers of Fourme d'Ambert get away with injecting their blue cheeses with wet Vouvray wine?
-Boofer-
I also wonder that. They probably have a special process. I've seen a video of Farmstead Fourme d'Ambert production and there was no mention of wine injection. They probably don't want to reveal its process. I have a feeling, that the "Affineurs" are the ones that do this wine injecting to make it unique and to give it their personal touch not the big producers/cheese makers. Affineurs buys young cheese and age it the way they want. I've bought Fourme d'Ambert before and it does not have wine flavor, it has a very milky flavor with a hint of blue.
Well, that sort of answers my question about a Fourme d'Ambert should taste. That means that my first try to make a Fourme d'Ambert totally failed. But, fortunately, the first bigger wheel that I cut last week (after first trying the smallest one which was still too young) offered me a very good tasting cheese. Firm body, starting to be crumbly, good developed blue taste. It tasted a bit like a blue Stilton that I bought a couple of weeks ago...
Quote from: hoeklijn on May 14, 2012, 06:25:40 AM
Firm body, starting to be crumbly, good developed blue taste. It tasted a bit like a blue Stilton that I bought a couple of weeks ago...
I don't think it's supposed to be crumbly. The times that I have eaten it the cheese was very creamy with a slight blue flavor that was not overly strong. I would not say if what I was tasting had any nuance of wine. Member
Brie made this cheese style and injected it. She would be better able to answer whether there was a wine characteristic when she ate it.
This cheese is the second make for this style for me. I will probably not inject it. I have already injected my first effort (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9484.0.html) twice. It seems to be accepting those injections and developing just fine. There is blue growth and the wine seems to be assimilating into the paste. Time will tell. Although the two makes are supposed to be fairly similar, they are developing in totally different ways. Still, it should provide me with a rough idea what the difference wine injection would make in this cheese.
-Boofer-
I know, it's far from an original Fourme d'Ambert as far as I can judge from what I read on this forum and the internet. I don't call mine a Fourme d'Ambert anymore, it's just a nice blue :P I took a quarter with me to the office, together with a quarter of a Cabra al Vino and people loved them both. And after all, that's the most important....
Quote from: hoeklijn on May 14, 2012, 06:49:03 PM
I know, it's far from an original Fourme d'Ambert as far as I can judge from what I read on this forum and the internet. I don't call mine a Fourme d'Ambert anymore, it's just a nice blue :P I took a quarter with me to the office, together with a quarter of a Cabra al Vino and people loved them both. And after all, that's the most important....
You are right.
Taste...the ultimate decider. :)
I made what was supposed to be a Double Gloucester two months ago. I would certainly like it to be close to the namesake in all respects, but it will never get there because I don't have access to Gloucester cows. My Manchego doesn't come from sheeps' milk either.
And one other point: I have sampled authentic Taleggio on two occasions from the same retailer. The first time it was gooey and like soft-taffy. The second time it was firm and not at all gooey. In that case, an apparent difference in aging.
-Boofer-
Yes, I have the same with my variety of Gouda's which I make as a regular "household cheese" and also with the Gouda I sometimes buy at the cheese farm. That's what makes it more challenging and interesting to make it at home rather to buy the same less tasting manufactured product over and over again.
The Blue Castello slurry assimilated with the cheese and hopefully shared its blue. No apparent ill effects from the application.
There is some Geo growth and a few spots of obvious blue, but otherwise you wouldn't know this was a blue cheese. We're still early in its process.
-Boofer-
That looks amazing Boof! Cut it and share! That is exactly what the Fourme should like look on the exterior! I am extremely excited to see the interior--do tell! I so enjoy your excursions and pictures; wish I had the time to take the pics through every stage as you do--an inspiration you are. Looking forward to the taste of this all.
I had a little bit of a problem (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9777.0.html) yesterday which encouraged me to cut this cheese.
The cheese was creamy, had good veining, and the taste seemed right where I wanted it to be. I detected a slight bitterness in spots, but thought that it might fade when the cheese came to room temperature and aired out a bit. I saved some for breakfast and vacuum-sealed the rest.
After coming to room temperature, I sampled the cheese with some apple slices.
-Boofer-
It looks like it turned out wonderfull :) You sure make fantastic lookin cheeses Boofer. another cheese fer you :D
That looks fantastic! A cheese to you.
- jeff
That's a pretty cheese Boofer! Hope those holes where where you poked it!
And again an other amazing looking cheese. I saw a piece of FdA yesterday at a local supermarket at now I can compare the exteriors. Yours look exactly the same! Although at was at a reasonable price, I didn't buy it. Yet. But when I've done that and it is as good as it looks, then I have a good guideline with your story to try to make it again. Cheese for you! ..
Thanks, guys.
I took the first FdA out to flip it this morning and was awfully tempted to cut into it. It is a week older than this one. When I flipped it, it showed some wine seepage so I decided to put it back in the cave and stick to my schedule. That schedule would mean cutting it around the middle of June.
Hey, Herman, thanks for that generous comparison to the one in the supermarket. I guess I might be on the right track with this style. Woo hoo! :D
-Boofer-
Okay, finally went back to the supermarket and bought a piece. 160 gram for Euro 2.20, that's 5.6 oz for $2.75.
OMG, Boofer, how I hope your Fourme d'Amber tastes as good as this one.
And how sure I know mine did not taste like this one, mine was fine but not divine...
Here some pictures so you can compare...
its interesting that they cut it horizontally (slice it like meat).
Quote from: Tomer1 on June 30, 2012, 01:49:13 PM
its interesting that they cut it horizontally (slice it like meat).
That
is the manner in which I've seen it cut as well, but I elected to wedge-cut mine.
Herman, the one you bought definitely has a lot more serious bluing. That would add significantly to the flavor. Being totally biased, I like the way my emulation came out. I would do it all the same way again, but right now I have a bit vacuum-sealed in the fridge. :)
-Boofer-
I think cheese can keep much better after opening when log devided, less paste surface area exposed.
Perhaps someone should pioneer log shaped molds for hard cheeses :)
Quote from: Boofer on June 30, 2012, 08:48:13 PM
Herman, the one you bought definitely has a lot more serious bluing.
-Boofer-
Yes, that's true, but it's a gray-green type of PC that is a lot milder than the one I'm using at this moment. When I take a look at the Danisco datasheets, it could be PRB18.
I have PRB18 in my fridge now, but have only used it once. My Fourme d'Ambert cheeses were done with slurries from Regina Blu (German) and Fourme d'Ambert slurries.
-Boofer-
Ooooh, dinner tonight! :P
Cheese...the gift that keeps on giving. 8)
-Boofer-
I'm drooling :D
Meatball monster!
Quote from: Tomer1 on July 07, 2012, 01:59:28 PM
Meatball monster!
Omg!!
What kind of meatballs are those?
I'm sooo hungry!!!!!
Keftedakia me domates ke tiri 8) ? That must sound familiar, Dukegus!
Quote from: hoeklijn on July 07, 2012, 05:32:48 PM
Keftedakia me domates ke tiri 8) ? That must sound familiar, Dukegus!
ha ha hahha hah aha
Omg mate you are amazing!
Are you sure you are not from Greece???
More precisely,
σάντουιτς με κεφτεδάκια ιταλικά γίνονται με βοδινό και χοιρινό κρέας με ντομάτα και ροκφόρ (sántouits me keftedákia italiká gínontai me vodinó kai choirinó kréas me ntomáta kai rokfór)
Am I close? :)
-Boofer-
Quote from: Boofer on July 07, 2012, 09:43:02 PM
σάντουιτς με κεφτεδάκια ιταλικά γίνονται με βοδινό και χοιρινό κρέας με ντομάτα και ροκφόρ (sántouits me keftedákia italiká gínontai me vodinó kai choirinó kréas me ntomáta kai rokfór)
Am I close? :)
Pretty close but you sound more like google translator were hoeklijn sounds more authentic :p
So the meatballs was just meat, no herbs/spies, bread, egg etc?
I'm still drooling though
Quote from: dukegus on July 07, 2012, 08:56:17 PM
Are you sure you are not from Greece???
Nevertheless my dark hair, big nose and the fact that I get a tan fairly quickly, yes, I'm pretty sure I don't have Greek blood in my veins...
Unless my late mother had some big secrets....
Quote from: dukegus on July 08, 2012, 08:23:43 AM
Pretty close but you sound more like google translator were hoeklijn sounds more authentic :p
So the meatballs was just meat, no herbs/spies, bread, egg etc?
I'm still drooling though
Busted! Yeah, you got me. I must admit I have no Greek lineage. Just Irish and Swiss. 8)
The meatballs were Italian-seasoned...and
very tasty in the sandwich.
-Boofer-
Quote from: hoeklijn on July 08, 2012, 01:10:45 PM
Unless my late mother had some big secrets....
Lol mate, I laughed so much, you are so funny!!!
Quote from: Boofer on July 08, 2012, 04:46:25 PM
The meatballs were Italian-seasoned...and very tasty in the sandwich.
I can imagine...I'm drooling again, I will never look at the picture again!!!
:)
Quote from: Aris on May 13, 2012, 02:43:25 PM
Quote from: Boofer on May 13, 2012, 05:53:34 AM
Quote from: Aris on May 12, 2012, 08:16:26 PM
You could have just scraped some Castello cheese on your cheese instead of a slurry. I've tried the scraping method before and it works. Its ok if your cheese didn't have blue mold on the outside, internal bluing is a lot more important. Btw Blue mold doesn't like its feet wet. Also by making the rind wet, you'll probably attract unwanted micro organisms.
So how do the makers of Fourme d'Ambert get away with injecting their blue cheeses with wet Vouvray wine?
-Boofer-
I also wonder that. They probably have a special process. I've seen a video of Farmstead Fourme d'Ambert production and there was no mention of wine injection. They probably don't want to reveal its process. I have a feeling, that the "Affineurs" are the ones that do this wine injecting to make it unique and to give it their personal touch not the big producers/cheese makers. Affineurs buys young cheese and age it the way they want. I've bought Fourme d'Ambert before and it does not have wine flavor, it has a very milky flavor with a hint of blue.
I have had some time to consider the results of injecting or not injecting Vouvray into the Fourme d'Ambert.
Both of my efforts were very tasty and achieved the results I was seeking. I think the wine on my first FdA (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9484.0.html) hardened the rind a bit. This make was very clean as far as the touch of blue and milky goodness goes. The recipe is definitely a winner. The only real question mark is the blue culture used. For this make, I got a little impatient and dosed it with two different PR strains. With the first FdA, I mixed the slurry in with the curds just prior to moulding. With this make, I added it to the milk with the cultures...then painted the second on at 4 weeks. What difference does that make when I go to duplicate this recipe? I think both methods were effective. I just needed a little more patience.
The next Fourme d'Ambert I make will follow this recipe but add an additional gallon of milk so that the mould is more fully filled. I will go ahead and try dosing the milk with
PRB18 (what I have on-hand) instead of making a slurry. I think
linuxboy cautioned against culturing from a cheese that had already been previously cultured, so I shouldn't take some culture from this make and attempt my next FdA.
I also got a cutting board from which I will cut a more proper follower so that the resulting cheese doesn't have "shoulders" from pressing. :)
And no, I won't inject the next FdA.
-Boofer-