Hello,
my name is Kostas and I live in Greece.
I always wanted to make cheese and I had some failed attempts with store bought milk which is pretty expensive and worthless compared to raw.
Recently I found out that my neighbor has some sheep, so I can get raw sheep's milk. Pretty expensive too but at least it amazing quality.
Yesterday I had my first try with feta cheese. All sheep's milk, pasteurized at 60 for ~30 min then cooled to ~40 and added thermophilic culture(yogurt)
and after a while rennet. I strained for about an hour at "room" temperature(~27) and the put in homemade cheese mold(tupperware with holes...) and
flipped a couple of times. Today I salted the fresh cheese with coarse salt(without iodine) about 2-3% and flipped a couple of times. Tomorrow morning
I'm putting the cheese in 7% brine(1 lt water/70 gr salt) and I'm gonna leave it for 4 weeks. Have no idea how it's gonna turn out!
Glad to be here and I hope I learn from you guys because I'd love to make all kinds of cheeses.
Kostas :)
The brine should be pH and calcium stabilized or it may leach out calcium from the cheese.
Why so low a salt content and so long a brining?
Kudos for finding a source of raw milk.
-Boofer-
Quote from: Boofer on June 15, 2012, 03:17:16 AM
The brine should be pH and calcium stabilized or it may leach out calcium from the cheese.
Why so low a salt content and so long a brining?
Kudos for finding a source of raw milk.
-Boofer-
Hi Boofer!
Thx for the reply mate!
Well I have no idea how to calcium stabilize it, generally I only got calcium sulfate because of brewing(beer)
and I can't find any calcium chloride soon enough.
The salt content was taken from a paper about feta cheese and the maturation said at least 4 weeks
but of course I have no idea about all the stuff that I said because it's my first time so I'm very open to change
any of those parameters!
Ya sas Kostas, ti kanete? Greetings from Holland, from the neighborhood of Gouda. I've been about 20 times in Greece on holiday and I love feta. I always though that the fresh feta in your supermarkets is so much better than the packed stuff they sell here. I recently made feta from 10 liters of goat milk but it is already finished.
I used the whey as brine, in that case you do not have to worry about the Calcium Chloride too much. To prevent the surface of getting slimy, I added a tsp of vinegar as well to 1 ltr of brine.
When you look at http://www.brouwland.com/en (http://www.brouwland.com/en) and look for distributors, they do have a reseller in Greece, at least for brewery-stuff. Maybe they also have CaCl2.
Kali Orexi!
Quote from: hoeklijn on June 15, 2012, 01:20:01 PM
Ya sas Kostas, ti kanete? Greetings from Holland, from the neighborhood of Gouda. I've been about 20 times in Greece on holiday and I love feta. I always though that the fresh feta in your supermarkets is so much better than the packed stuff they sell here. I recently made feta from 10 liters of goat milk but it is already finished.
I used the whey as brine, in that case you do not have to worry about the Calcium Chloride too much. To prevent the surface of getting slimy, I added a tsp of vinegar as well to 1 ltr of brine.
When you look at http://www.brouwland.com/en (http://www.brouwland.com/en) and look for distributors, they do have a reseller in Greece, at least for brewery-stuff. Maybe they also have CaCl2.
Kali Orexi!
Efharisto~Thanks :)
You should come more oftenly and especially if we ever get rid of Euro you should visit and enjoy cheap holiday.
Till then all potential tourists and all people living in Greece aren't that happy... :)
Well I added a bit of sheep's yogurt and some buttermilk in the brine, don't know if it will work though. What are
the main disadvantages of calcium leaching out of the cheese really?
I know brouwland, that's where I used to get my brewing equipment, but now that I'm unemployed for...quite some
time, I only buy very cheap stuff and except from the press, in cheese making I can't see any expensive equipment :)
Thanks for the welcoming and the info,
this is a huge forum so I'm gonna read slowly.
*My next try(when I save some money to buy the milk...) will be a blue cheese and I'm searching for info about harvesting
the roquefort mold for store bought cheese.
dukegus, check this string (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8914.0.html) out, just one of many helpfull strings on the forum ^-^
Quote from: H-K-J on June 15, 2012, 04:22:59 PM
dukegus, check this string (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8914.0.html) out, just one of many helpfull strings on the forum ^-^
Thanks mate,
there is HUGE info in this forum,
bravo guys!
Quote from: dukegus on June 15, 2012, 04:01:27 PM
What are the main disadvantages of calcium leaching out of the cheese really?
I never experienced it myself fortunately, but it seems that the feta may become spongy.
And about the situation in Greece: With or without Euro, I hope it turns out well for the Greek people, they deserve it. It was not the working class that caused this crisis. What part of Greece are you from?
Quote from: hoeklijn on June 16, 2012, 02:12:27 PM
And about the situation in Greece: With or without Euro, I hope it turns out well for the Greek people, they deserve it. It was not the working class that caused this crisis. What part of Greece are you from?
Let's hope the electionss result is good and not awful because the Media for 2-3 months now are trying to scare the people and they might succeed.
I'm from Epirus, a part that used to have many sheep/goat herds and used to produce cheese(mainly brined ones). My grandma like all people her age used to make cheese, though I'm just starting :)
We got a nice traditional spread cheese, that's a bit acidic and salty, that's very popular in Epirus. I plan to get and post the recipe here but I haven't got all the info yet...It's made with sheep's milk and a bit like strained yogurt, but with wild microorganisms that get in the milk after pasteurizing it(at least nowdays) and inoculated for 2-3 months at very low temps but the info could be wrong. Not all people are willing to share their "recipe"
Ah, Parga, Igoumenitsa, Zagoria, I travelled that part of Greece a long time ago with a VW Camper. Brings back nice memories....
At that time I was not "In to cheese" like now, otherwise I would have known more about the local cheeses of that area...
Quote from: hoeklijn on June 17, 2012, 09:51:50 AM
Ah, Parga, Igoumenitsa, Zagoria, I travelled that part of Greece a long time ago with a VW Camper. Brings back nice memories....
Omg mate, all the top places, you were a very lucky(and for some crazy reason amazingly-informed) guy having vacations there! Was it long ago and was it really a VW Camper!?!? There are some nice dairy products to try in Epirus but not much of variety in styles...
It was 1985, drove all the way down through Yugoslavia, travelled around Halkidiki, then down to Mt. Olympos, Meteora, Ioannina, Igoumenitsa, Parga, Zagoria. Along the border of Albania to Lake Ohrid and then through Montenegro to the coast to Dubrovnik, Makarska ,Split and back home. 6000 km in 4 weeks but a lifetime experience...
Quote from: dukegus on June 15, 2012, 04:01:27 PM
What are the main disadvantages of calcium leaching out of the cheese really?
Try this thread. (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4075.msg31204.html#msg31204)
-Boofer-
Quote from: hoeklijn on June 18, 2012, 06:26:02 AM
It was 1985, drove all the way down through Yugoslavia, travelled around Halkidiki, then down to Mt. Olympos, Meteora, Ioannina, Igoumenitsa, Parga, Zagoria. Along the border of Albania to Lake Ohrid and then through Montenegro to the coast to Dubrovnik, Makarska ,Split and back home. 6000 km in 4 weeks but a lifetime experience...
I was born only in '83!!! :)
Omg mate, how lovely must have been those years...I guess our generation won't live that kind of experiences...
Did you have any guides or any friends native to those places? It sounds that you had a huge variety of landscapes/coutries/food!
Quote from: Boofer on June 18, 2012, 01:45:20 PM
Try this thread. (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4075.msg31204.html#msg31204)
-Boofer-
Thx mate!
yeah, I'm afraid i was born somewhere halfway the previous age ;) , 1955 to be exactly. First time in Greece was 1977, Milos, Folegrandros, Sifnos and Athens. I've been about ten times on Anafi and about 8 times on Paros, 5 or 6 times on Zante and visited several other islands. I didn't have friends or guides native to those places when I traveled with the VW, there was no internet (!!) and I got all my info from books and travel guides.
It was the only real trip I made on the main land, except for 1 time I traveled with public bus from Athens to Kastro Kylini to get the boat to Zante and one time with the bus from Athens to Parga to take the boat to Paxi.
1955? You are like my father mate! ;D
If you ever visit again I live in Patras, not a tourist attraction though but I can offer homebrewed beer and hopefully homemade cheese
so you are more than welcome! But things are not that good in Greece anymore, I see everyday people(either immigrants or Greeks) to
searchy for food in the trash...all my friends my age(and me too) don't have jobs...I'm stopping now because I'm gonna start complaining
again!
Well, I feel still young, got 2 children under 10 years old and got a job and ICT where I'm still able to keep track with all the younger guys...
Thanks for the invitation, I came through Patras twice on my way to Kylini for the boat to Zante. Indeed not really the most attractive place for tourists, but whenever I'm in the neighborhood, I'll let you know...
Quote from: hoeklijn on June 22, 2012, 10:51:26 AMgot 2 children under 10 years old and got a job
well I don't have either with the latter being the most difficult to deal with right now :/
Today I'm making a blue and a camembert together so if you come in 2-3 months the cheese will be ready :p
Have a nice day mate!
I hope both turn out fine, I mean the cheeses. If you have the chance, please post pictures...
I'm trying to contact my milk supplier, but I'm getting the fax whole afternoon...
I want to pick up 20 ltr at milking time, right from the milking machine. Will be still at about 34C when I come home. Fresher is not possible.
If I can order it, I will make Gouda with mustard seed tomorrow, if I can't order it, I'm risking that they are making cheese themselves tomorrow morning.
Just out of curiosity, what do you pay for cow or goat milk over there? I get the cow milk at the farm for 60 cent per liter and for the goat milk I pay 1euro per liter.
Quote from: hoeklijn on June 22, 2012, 02:57:54 PM
I get the cow milk at the farm for 60 cent per liter and for the goat milk I pay 1euro per liter.
Consider yourself extremely fortunate. Try $11.99 or $9.99 per gallon! It hurts but that's the price for raw Jersey milk from two dairies here. If I went with pasteurized/non-homogenized creamline Jersey milk, I could save a little at $3.19 per half gallon. The P/H industrial milk from who knows what sells for $2 to $3.50 per gallon, but I won't use it any more. I don't trust it.
-Boofer-
That's about 2 euro's per liter for raw Jersey milk. Yes Boofer, I'm a lucky man, sitting here and waiting till the milk is cooled down enough to add the culture. When I came home it was at 33C/91.4F. Had a nice talk with the farmer about the relation between cow food, sanity and late blowing/early blowing cheeses while he was milking. Ever been in a stable during milking time, early on a cold and rainy summer morning? I love it....
Belated welcome to you!
Born in 83? My kid 6 by then!
How much for 8-2 goat-sheep milk?
I get it 1,5 euros per liter and I think it's expensive like hell!
I though I got sheep's milk but it's a mix of mainly goat and little sheep...
DeejayDebi 6 kids??? Omg!!!! :)
NO! I have one kid and he was 6 in 1983! Although we always had at least 4 or more running through the house
Because I had a water-brine solution, the soft-rind thing happened. It's not because of leak of Ca but
"Such an effect is responsible for the "soft-rind" defect and swelling in cheese, and it is attributed to "salting-in" (solubilization) of the cheese protein in dilute NaCl solutions."
Now I put my feta in proper whey-brine and I hope this thing changes.
My feta cheese has a huge goat-flowery aroma/taste which I don't know if I like...
Will it change while it matures?
Well, I once had a feta on a farm near Bali on Crete that had a very strong taste. I liked it very much, but I think it was partially from sheep like your milk.
I don't expect it to become less when maturing, I think it will become stronger. I know people use lipase to get a "sheep flavor" to cow's milk, but I have no idea if there is anything to do it the other way around....
I think you'd better post this in the "problems" or under the "mediteranian" subject, probably it will get more readers...
Quote from: hoeklijn on June 25, 2012, 02:34:19 PM
Well, I once had a feta on a farm near Bali on Crete that had a very strong taste. I liked it very much, but I think it was partially from sheep like your milk.
I don't expect it to become less when maturing, I think it will become stronger. I know people use lipase to get a "sheep flavor" to cow's milk, but I have no idea if there is anything to do it the other way around....
I think you'd better post this in the "problems" or under the "mediteranian" subject, probably it will get more readers...
Thanks mate I will do it that way ;)
Hi Kostas, how are your blue and your Camembert doing? Did you actually make 2 cheeses or did you combine them into Cambozola?
I have tried that and it was one of my best cheeses ever...
Quote from: hoeklijn on July 07, 2012, 05:41:01 PM
Hi Kostas, how are your blue and your Camembert doing? Did you actually make 2 cheeses or did you combine them into Cambozola?
I have tried that and it was one of my best cheeses ever...
Well I made one without any crazy mold,
one with roqueforti that I got from a bough blue cheese
and one camemberti which I got from the rind of a camembert.
The blue looks and smells pretty good, the camembert smells a bit awful, like it has spoiled...
Both got a nice layer or mold. I'll post some pictures tomorrow!!
Keep an eye on the Camembert then, I had to toss away 2 kg of Brie some time ago. Had it in a container in the cave which probably turned out too wet.
It was smelling somewhere between sulphur and ammonia...
Quote from: hoeklijn on July 08, 2012, 08:53:30 AMbetween sulphur and ammonia...
d@mn, I think it's close!!!
luckily it's much smaller than my blue so if it spoils no big deal :)
If white mold is developing well, get it out of the cave for an hour to get some air and try to lower the storage temperature and the RH.
I hope it turns out well... Don't give up too soon, mine was tasting excelent but I had to serve it on party we were orginizing and with that smell I wouldn't offer it to anybody...
Quote from: hoeklijn on July 08, 2012, 01:06:43 PM
If white mold is developing well, get it out of the cave for an hour to get some air and try to lower the storage temperature and the RH.
I hope it turns out well... Don't give up too soon, mine was tasting excelent but I had to serve it on party we were orginizing and with that smell I wouldn't offer it to anybody...
I got the pictures, yeah the white mold is going ok, I'll give them a quick retouch and I'll post them here.
I thought of making one post for every cheese but like in the "feta cheese soft ring" post I made, I had no replies so I'll post the pics here.
Ok here I go, these are my cheeses right now
The ones with the crumbly feeling are the ones that I made stilton style. Don't know if I'll add roqueforti...
The flat one and the small one were supposed to stay without microorganisms my the flat one is contaminated with something blue...
and I got it in the same container as the small one so...I've washed with vingegar and salt those two.
Then there is my blue which has some yellowish tints(like bellow the last blue "strip") but I think it's nothing. I washed this one too a little.
My camembert style looks good but it doesn't feel creamy and because I got some holes on it's container the whole cave smells of....sulfur and ammonia...
*I got them in containers because I can't control the humidity for many reasons...