Milk - Ambient Lactobacillus Testing (Starts with discussion on what happens to buttermilk & yogurt

[mtncheesemaker]

I am making a manchego this afternoon from raw sheep's milk. I used some cultured buttermilk, from my buttermaking, (jersey milk) and some yogurt, from the same source.
As I was adding these starters, I was wondering what happens to the part of the yoghurt and buttermilk that isn't the bacteria? Does it get coagulated into the cheese? Just wondered what the difference might be between this method and using a powdered starter. I've never thought about it before and was just curious.
Also, is it necessary to use both meso and thermo starters when using raw sheep milk for manchego?
Thanks for any comments.

[linuxboy]

Does it get coagulated into the cheese?

Yes, it is incorporated into the matrix that the casein micelles form.

might be between this method and using a powdered starter

Immediate pH drop from the acidity, and also no lag time.

necessary to use both meso and thermo starters when using raw sheep milk for manchego?

Up to you and the milk. If the ambient flora in the milk do not have lactobacilli, flavor development may be a little slow. We use blended mixes like this to contribute flavor and texture from the thermo bacteria. In raw milk, they're typically present naturally, but not always.

[ArnaudForestier]

In raw milk, they're typically present naturally, but not always.

Pav, absent lab techniques, how would you know? (thus determining whether to add in at least some meso SLABs or not).

[mtncheesemaker]

Thanks, LB. I figured it must become part of the cheese but hadn't really given it any consideration before. Just struck me that I'm adding a little cow's milk to the make.
Tomer, I was asking about the buttermilk, used as a starter, that is added to the milk, then renneted. Not just the leftover buttermilk. But thanks for the reply.

[linuxboy]

Pav, absent lab techniques, how would you know?

Guessing/divine revelation/voodoo/magic/casting lots. Take your pick. Actually there is one way... You could let the milk clabber and smell and taste it. Bacilli smell differently from meso cocci. Also, you could thermize and see what grew. If thermos still grew after thermizing, then there's bacilli in there.

[BigCheese]

We have paneer almost every single day in some form or another. Usually we curdle with lemon juice, but with all the dairy we have around now I often do curdle the milk with buttermilk, yogurt, ripened whey, etc. There is a noticeable increase in yield when using buttermilk or yogurt.

[linuxboy]

Probably tough to convey via text, but can you indicate, what that smell is? 

Take every single culture you have. Buy a bunch of 8-16 ounce canning jars. Culture all of your DVI starters at the thermo and meso temps, as appropriate. Then taste, smell, scoop, and feel each one. Take notes. You'll see what I mean. There are no shortcuts here

OK, I'll take magic for a thousand, Alex.   

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

[ArnaudForestier]

There are no shortcuts here

Oh, don't worry - bought an electronic nose, it's slaved to my harddrive, so we're good. 

OK, OK, gotcha.  And once again, timing - as I just bought a bunch of pint Ball Jars for primers.  Will do.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Go sw.

(Mannnnnnn - takes me back, to Berkeley's Unix...those middle of the night composing sessions on a theory of nationalism....when everyone online throughout the campus and off-campus community was deathly tired, and uh...likely to be eaten by a grue.... )   

[OudeKaas]

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

MC Frontalot - It Is Pitch Dark