Author Topic: Too Much Pressure/Update/Mis-shapen  (Read 5508 times)

cindybman

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Too Much Pressure/Update/Mis-shapen
« on: March 10, 2015, 12:33:01 AM »
(Sorry if this has been brought-up before; I searched, but if you know of a link please let me know)

I am in the process of doing my first presses of my "Alpine-Style Tomme".  I am using a CheesyPress that uses a crank/turn pressure system.  Two complete turns equals 10lbs pressure,  4 turns equals 20lbs, etc.

I followed the directions but I couldn't tell when the spring "begins to depress".  It's a really thick spring and I'm not feeling an obvious "push" or press.  So, I have no idea if I'm pressing too light or too heavy... I don't know if I'm starting to count my cranks (???) :)  at the right point. 

After a pressing time, when I flip, is there anything I can look for to see if I'm pressing too little or not enough?  I did my first 10 minutes at 10lbs.  Now I'm doing 15 minutes at 20lbs.  Next will be 3 hours at 20lbs, flipping every 30 minutes.

Any advice you have, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks
Cindy
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 05:02:37 PM by cindybman »

WovenMeadows

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Re: Too Much Pressure Too Soon?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2015, 01:19:20 AM »
Here's what I'd recommend:
Start with just enough weight to get the curds to stay together, for the whole wheel to hold its shape. You'll still notice cracks and holes/pockmarks between curds. (On many cheeses, including alpine, this tends to happen on its own, without any or much external pressure). Say, 15-30 minutes or so. Flip and redress the wheel.
Then up it a bit, until you lose more of indentations, the surface becoming smoother still. Another 15-30 minutes. Flip and redress again
Then at this point you can aim for a smooth surface, from higher pressure.
If, say, you wound up with a completely smooth wheel after just a short time during the first pressing, you probably pressed too hard and fast - this could trap whey in the cheese wheel, which down the road will ferment and make the cheese sour and weepy.

If you want mechanical openings in you cheese (irregularly shaped holes in the past when cut, often seen in Havarti for instance), then you would press just until you get that smooth surface, but not much more pressure than that. You would actually be leaving those gaps and spaces between the curd particles, though you wouldn't see any gaps on the outside of the wheel. (You want it smooth outside though, as holes and cracks give a place for mold to grow.)

If you don't want mechanical openings, the you press more, to press out those gaps between curd, making the curd uniformly compressed throughout the wheel. If you're aiming for a smooth paste of the cheese, OR aiming for round wholes from gas production (such as large eyes from proprionic bacteria in Emmental, or small eyes from diacetyl bacteria), you want those mechanical openings pressed out.

I find most cheese doesn't need a whole lot of pressure, not much more than 2x the weight of the cheese. It's the cheddar-types that need a helleva lot of pressure. So, if you have, say, a 4 pound alpine, you may not need more than 8 pounds of pressure/weight at the end of things. (So maybe step it up from start to finish from 2lbs to 4lbs to 8lbs for instance.)

A note about your spring-style press, though - since the cheese is pressed by the spring pushing against the top of the mold, as the cheese compresses (e.g. whey is pushed out; gaps are closed) and the the cheese shrinks in volume, the pressure actually lessens. So over time with the spring type press, LESS weight is applied to the cheese. So may have to be continually tweaking the screw for the first couple hours. Dead-weights, lever arms, and pneumatic presses by contrast apply a constant pressure over time.

cindybman

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Re: Too Much Pressure Too Soon?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2015, 01:56:27 AM »
Woven Meadows,

Awesome! Thank you so much for the post!  Well, I think I may have a cheese that's pretty compressed. Oops.  Learn, learn, learn... right? :/

If it's not to late, I'll try to ease up on the pressure a little and see what happens.  I will be putting the information you gave me in my notebook.

Thanks!

Offline awakephd

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Re: Too Much Pressure Too Soon?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2015, 02:13:30 AM »
The approach I use is to add just enough weight to keep a light drip/trickle of whey. IOW, as you add pressure, as soon as you see the whey starting to well out, stop and wait a while.
-- Andy

cindybman

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Re: Too Much Pressure Too Soon?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2015, 03:11:48 AM »
Oh my god... my poor cheese! It's going to be dysfunctional and need therapy!

I have *no* idea how I've done at pressing this... all I've really gotten is a slow to very slow drip. 

Also, I am so happy I saw this... during a redress and flip, I noticed a few dark fibers! It must have been the butter muslin -- which was clean.  I keep all the pets out of my room and I'm a freak with cleanliness in the room (no where else :) ).  All I can think it was in the butter muslin.  So, I had to pick the pieces out... I have about 10 little "pock marks" around my wheel.  They are tiny. 

Will this mess up my rind?  Will I have a problem with contamination? My cheese still has an hour and half of pressing and flipping. Speaking of which, my timer just went off! Time to redress and flip!


Stinky

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Re: Too Much Pressure Too Soon?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2015, 03:44:36 AM »
Don't worry.

Also just make sure no cheese is going through the cheesecloth.

cindybman

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Re: Too Much Pressure Too Soon?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 06:37:36 AM »
Well, my cheese is air-drying (on a mat on a rack).  It looks great but as it sat, the bottom became slightly bigger than the top (settling).  So, I gently flipped it over and one hour 45 minutes later, it had "settled" again. 

It's not huge. It's noticeable but it's not NOTICEABLE, if that makes sense?

WovenMeadows

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Re: Too Much Pressure Too Soon?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2015, 12:26:05 PM »
I think that "slow to very slow" drip of whey, though, is better than too fast of a stream - signals a gentle and steady pressure, rather than a quick and heavy pressing

cindybman

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Re: Too Much Pressure Too Soon?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2015, 02:31:31 PM »
Well, something is wrong.  After following directions, I finished pressing and left the wheel to air dry overnight.  Excitedly ran to the "cheese room" like a kid on Christmas morning... No cracks, no greasy/oily stuff... however, just a little clear moisture on the bottom and the wheel "settled" so the bottom is noticeably larger than the top.

I've searched my books, searched here and Googled "pressing troubleshooting cheese making problems shape" and every variation of that and I couldn't find anything addressing my problem.

What does this mean? Obviously, I didn't apply enough pressure?  Is the cheese ruined?

I am so pissed (sorry) about the damn (sorry) press!  The press was highly recommended by Ms. Karlin in her book; but I think the press is ridiculous for a beginner.  There is too much left to chance and I need something more exact.  So, last night while waiting 30 minutes to redress and flip, I ordered a new cheese press!  Got the one from NE Cheese Making.  So there.

WovenMeadows

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Re: Too Much Pressure/Update/Mis-shapen
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2015, 05:38:14 PM »
I don't think this is abnormal for a softer bodied cheese (if that's what you were going for). From your description you took it out of the mold and let it air dry overnight - without brining? Or were the curds salted before being pressed (like a cheddar) so not being brined? Generally you want to go straight from mold to brine, or the cheese is going to "smoosh" just as you described.

If this is something that happened AFTER the wheel was brined, then there was probably too much moisture left in the cheese to begin with. Or it was way to warm and softened.

cindybman

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Re: Too Much Pressure/Update/Mis-shapen
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 05:39:48 PM »
Woven... I pressed and then air dried overnight.  Now I am supposed to rub salt on the rind, cover with a damp towel and start aging.  So, the cheese may not be bad?

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Too Much Pressure/Update/Mis-shapen
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 06:39:30 PM »
Here's my suggestion, contact Smolt1 and buy a Sturdypress.  That way you won't have to babysit your cheeses every time you press, especially overnight.
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cindybman

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Re: Too Much Pressure/Update/Mis-shapen
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2015, 06:59:01 PM »
Thanks Al!  I actually already ordered a new press from NE CheeseMaking; but thank you kindly.

I'm just trying to understand what is happening.  Is there liquid causing the "spread"? Does it look like a blob because the curds didn't knit together?  Is it gas? Is my cheese trying to fart? :)  Yes, I have the humor of a 13-year-old.

qdog1955

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Re: Too Much Pressure/Update/Mis-shapen
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2015, 08:11:07 PM »
 It's often  referred to as elephant foot----when the bottom slumps out like that and resembles an elephant foot------in my limited experience, the curds have retained to much whey-----check the texture of your curds before you drain ----most of the books and NE cheese recipes tell you how to do this----I could be wrong, but I don't think you can press that type of whey retention out.

Qdog 

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Too Much Pressure/Update/Mis-shapen
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2015, 09:09:34 PM »
If the cheese has a lot of whey in it when drying you have to flip it often so the whey basically stays in the middle.  If it sits too long on one side it will get "elephants foot" as the whey all goes to the bottom and causess it to swell.  Typically, if you flip it enough the whey will settle in the middle and cause a bulge like you would see on a Regiano Parmesan.
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