Traditional Feta Question

[UpMyKilt]

I have now made three "batches" of "feta style" cheese and am working on a Bulgarian "sirene" cheese Boy... this is a fun hobby! As I stated in my introduction, my very first attempt turned out... okay... the taste was good - similar to some fetas I've bought at the grocery store, but it was very crumbly.  It was so crumbly, there was no point really in aging it in brine. So I ate it. All. The whole pound or so, in a day or two

Crumbled it on salads, or just spooned it into my mouth.

The next two "batches," each from 4 litres of milk, turned out with a really nice curd. The first of the next two was from goat's milk (pasteurized) and then cow's milk (also pasteurized). The goat's milk at first did not seem to have much taste to it, but after a month in the brine, it's really nice

The third batch from cow's milk also had a very nice textured curd, smelled wonderful from the get go (after a couple of days of air drying) and is now in brine.

All of these were made using a culture called "Probat 222" which came with a Feta "kit" from cheesemaking.ca. I understand this culture is also used for making buttermilk.

So this is where I have a question, with a little bit of background:

I have a friend who lives in Greece. Her grandmother makes feta. When I asked how, this was the reply:

"So here is the detailed description

We take less than a half spoon of rennet and we put it in 4 litres of medium temperature milk.
We cover the milk very well so it keeps it's temperature for more than 3 hours.
We uncover, we cut and we put it in cheese cloth hanging so it's drained. We keep the whey.
After is perfectly drained , we cut it and we put it in a bowl wiith thick salt. We leave it in the bowl for 2 days.
Then we transfer it in the tin with the whey we have kept from the cheese cloth .

I m sorry if the description was crappy. I hope you understood what i wrote."



She later qualified the "medium temperature" to mean "about the temperature the milk comes out of the cow."   When I asked if she added any "bacterial culture," she said "No! The only thing added is rennet."

So what is going on here? What is this "feta" that this Greek person is making in Greece? Is it just using whatever bacteria happens to already be in the milk or the air?

[awakephd]

Yes, it sounds like they are relying on the natural bacteria present in raw milk. This is, of course, where all of the cultures used have come from. In the past, long-term cheese-making operations "refined" their bacterial cultures by using the whey from the previous batch to innoculate the next batch. If the cheesemaking process favored thermophilic temperatures, this would tend to reinforce the thermophilic bacteria; similarly if the process favored the mesophilic.

Modern cultures were developed and purified from these "refined" bacterial cultures.

Of course, making the cheese only from the natural bacteria in the raw milk runs a certain risk of letting something unwanted predominate the process, perhaps a bacteria that has been introduced or augmented either due to illness in the animal or from poor sanitation or so on. I read somewhere, recently, that these days even some of the "traditional" cheesemakers, who still use the previous whey to make the next batch, may also add some of the purified cultures to help make sure they get what they want.

[UpMyKilt]

Thanks so much for the reply Andy That now makes sense to me.

I also have some instructions on making Bulgarian style "feta" (sirene) and am having a go at that.

Yet, in a video, someone is suggesting adding some kind of liquid yeast. Indeed, in the comment section, someone refers to it in Bulgarian as "bottle of мая." мая translates directly as "yeast." I thought maybe they were confusing rennet for yeast, but rennet has a completely different translation in Bulgarian.

Any thoughts on this? Using yeast to make cheese, or is there some kind of translation error going on, where perhaps rennet is also called "yeast?"

The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWqnVOAdx1E

[UpMyKilt]

No worries - I found the answer from a Bulgarian friend!

Yes, in Bulgara the Bulgarian term for "yeast can also mean "rennet." But the video I watched must not be all that correct; they pasteurized the goats milk first, cooled it, then just added the drops of rennet.

[awakephd]

Interesting that the same word means either yeast or rennet, as they are indeed very different ingredients!

Some yeasts are used in cheesemaking - I think that Geotrichium Candidum, used in several mold-ripened cheeses, is a type of yeast. (Someone please correct me if I have gotten mixed up on this!)

By the way, your screen name always makes me think of this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMKOvdnBvTE

[Gregore]

Geo is a yeast that acts more like a fungus .

Very interesting article .

http://microbialfoods.org/geotrichum-candidum-mold-transition/

[UpMyKilt]

Interesting that the same word means either yeast or rennet, as they are indeed very different ingredients!

Yes, but I suppose I could probably think of some similar words in English that can mean two different things and could be confusing for someone who didn't know the language or understand regional variations. The word "ass" can refer to a donkey or something else, and both have other names as well

Some yeasts are used in cheesemaking - I think that Geotrichium Candidum, used in several mold-ripened cheeses, is a type of yeast. (Someone please correct me if I have gotten mixed up on this!)

I'll have a look.

By the way, your screen name always makes me think of this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMKOvdnBvTE

LOL - I know the song well

[UpMyKilt]

Geo is a yeast that acts more like a fungus .

Very interesting article .

http://microbialfoods.org/geotrichum-candidum-mold-transition/

Thanks Gregore! Will have a read of that later

[awakephd]

Interesting that the same word means either yeast or rennet, as they are indeed very different ingredients!

Yes, but I suppose I could probably think of some similar words in English that can mean two different things and could be confusing for someone who didn't know the language or understand regional variations. The word "ass" can refer to a donkey or something else, and both have other names as well

Oh yes, this is true whenever you convert from one language to another. Among other things, I often teach a language course, so this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. Apologies in advance for the soapbox that follows below ... please feel free to skip it as you prefer!

[Begin Soapbox mode]
One of the most important concepts to get across to students is that, even though vocabulary lists make it seem like word-in-language-A = word-in-language-B, the reality is that the words only overlap in their meanings and connotations; there is almost never a one-for-one correspondence. And there are always words that, in language A, have two (or more) distinct ideas expressed with a single word, while in language B each of the ideas is expressed with a separate word.

So, for example, in English, the word "that" can be a demonstrative pronoun ("What kind is that cheese?") or a relative pronoun ("This is the kind that smells stinky") or a conjunction introducing the content of a thought or statement ("She said that she likes this cheese"). But in koine Greek, each of these ideas is expressed with completely different words (οὑτος, ὁς, and ὁτι, respectively). Meanwhile, the last of those Greek words, ὁτι, can mean either "because" or "that" -- two very different ideas for us in English.
[End Soapbox mode]

[UpMyKilt]

Andy, no worries about your being on a soapbox!

As I try to explain to my son as a lesson in precise communications: Every word has more than one meaning

Semantics is an interesting (to me) study. Perhaps you are familiar with the book, "Language In Thought And Action" by S. I. Hayakawa?

Additionally, we need to remember that what we are reading is being read with our own "tone of voice" in our minds; not necessarily the "tone of voice" in the mind of the author.

And then there is the fact that is obvious, but often overlooked - the idea is not the same as the thing and neither are the same as the symbol (or letters and words).

[reg]

" Additionally, we need to remember that what we are reading is being read with our own "tone of voice" in our minds; not necessarily the "tone of voice" in the mind of the author."

Very true when it comes to internet communications. Having said that this board has always been very friendly

[awakephd]

Semantics is an interesting (to me) study. Perhaps you are familiar with the book, "Language In Thought And Action" by S. I. Hayakawa?

Likewise. I have not read this book, but I will now look for it!

Additionally, we need to remember that what we are reading is being read with our own "tone of voice" in our minds; not necessarily the "tone of voice" in the mind of the author.

And then there is the fact that is obvious, but often overlooked - the idea is not the same as the thing and neither are the same as the symbol (or letters and words).

Amen! Well said.

[UpMyKilt]

efer!

[Begin Soapbox mode]
One of the most important concepts to get across to students is that, even though vocabulary lists make it seem like word-in-language-A = word-in-language-B, the reality is that the words only overlap in their meanings and connotations; there is almost never a one-for-one correspondence. And there are always words that, in language A, have two (or more) distinct ideas expressed with a single word, while in language B each of the ideas is expressed with a separate word.

So, for example, in English, the word "that" can be a demonstrative pronoun ("What kind is that cheese?") or a relative pronoun ("This is the kind that smells stinky") or a conjunction introducing the content of a thought or statement ("She said that she likes this cheese"). But in koine Greek, each of these ideas is expressed with completely different words (οὑτος, ὁς, and ὁτι, respectively). Meanwhile, the last of those Greek words, ὁτι, can mean either "because" or "that" -- two very different ideas for us in English.
[End Soapbox mode]

I just revisited this old post. Still making feta... and... interesting you used the example of Greek (if you are still around here, awakephd

Guess where I am going in two weeks? Greece! Hopefully I will learn a little Greek while I am there, and a little about traditional feta making and olive oil pressing

[awakephd]

καλιμερα! I absolutely love traveling in Greece. The feta and olives are, not surprisingly, fantastic - but all the food is good. Greece is where I first had octopus that was really, really good. Will you be traveling around to any archaeological sites?

[UpMyKilt]

Thanks for the reply, Andy

Heading to Greece "on the cheap" so to speak... staying with my lady friend in a suburb of Athens. It was something that came up - could afford the airfare, and my friend has offered me the accommodations and tour guide services

I'd love to see some of the archaeological sites, but we'll get in whatever we can with the budget we have. I know some museums are planned and I'd like to see Socrates Caves. Most of the time, we'll be in or close to Athens. It's mostly a trip to do whatever we can. She has an olive tree at her house that I'll apparently be climbing and helping with some trimming and olive harvesting Apparently, my height will be most beneficial for some jobs she needs done

I know her family also has vineyards near a rural village about two hours from Athens; it's possible we'll visit there as well. I would love to do that as I've been a home winemaker in the past. They apparently do everything in the "traditional" way.