Author Topic: Brined Caerphilly?  (Read 2013 times)

Offline mikekchar

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Shizuoka, Japan
  • Posts: 1,015
  • Cheeses: 118
  • Default personal text
Brined Caerphilly?
« on: June 19, 2019, 10:39:55 AM »
Looking for advice.  I'm a bit worried that my press won't be up to closing a cheddared and milled cheese.  I suppose I can try it and see what happens, but I'm basically out of cheese and I want to make something soon :-).  Before I went to the UK, I made a caciotta which essentially has you putting the curds in a mould and then letting it drain at an elevated temperature (Thermaphilic starter, draining at 41C for 1 hour).  The caciotta isn't pressed at all and closes under its own weight, but it's a fairly high moisture cheese.  I'm thinking about trying this technique with a drier cheese -- similar make to Caerphilly and then press a bit to get it to close.  Finally brining it for salt.

Anybody have any thoughts on if this is a bad/good idea?  I suppose it will make cheese no matter what, so I should just try it :-)

Offline awakephd

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Cheeses: 240
  • compounding the benefits of a free press
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2019, 09:09:37 PM »
I'd say just try it. :)
-- Andy

River Bottom Farm

  • Guest
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2019, 11:52:04 PM »
If you make it and have trouble closing the rind just dunk the cheese and mold into some hot water for a min then re press for a bit. You might have some mechanical openings in the cheese but the rind will likely close that way at least.

Offline mikekchar

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Shizuoka, Japan
  • Posts: 1,015
  • Cheeses: 118
  • Default personal text
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 01:40:17 AM »
I'm going with RBF's recommendation.  If I don't try, I'll never know.  I'm using Caldwell's recipe.  It's interesting that I can't really find any good information on traditional Caerphilly (Caerffili).  The wikipedia page is embarrassingly wrong (24 hour brining and then sprinkled with rice flour to make it white???) There are a couple of Youtube videos, but it's hard to get much info.

Quick recipe:

  • 4L milk
  • 1/16 tsp MA 4001
  • 1/4 tsp CaCl2
  • 13 drops rennet (normal: 16 drops)
  • salt 8-10g (2 applications of 1% weight of curds)
  • Add culture at 27 C.  Bring up to 30 C over 5 min.
  • Ripen for 55 min.
  • Add CaCl2.  Stir and wait 5 min.
  • Add Rennet.  30 min to flocc, cut at 60 (Target 22 min, 2x total time from flocc)
  • Cut 1.3 cm cubes.  Wait *15 min*
  • Stir 15 min.  Then over 15 min raise temp to 34 C. Rest 5 min and drain.
  • Pile curds to the side of the pot.  Maintain 34C and cheddar for 1 hour.  Cut slab every 15 minutes and restack.
  • Cut curds into 2 cm pieces and salt with 1% weight of salt
  • Press lightly for 1.5 - 2 hours
  • Rub with 1% weight of salt.  Press to close rind over 12-24 hours
  • Brine for ~20 minutes

It's a very interesting recipe, so when I looked at it again I suddenly wanted to try it properly :-)

Edit:  OK.  Doing this has won me over.  Cheddaring is surprisingly fun.  I was *really* surprised by the texture of the curds after cheddaring for only an hour -- and at a low temp (only 34 C -- 93 F).  And, I didn't have to worry at all about closing the rind.  After 30 minutes in the press at a moderate weight, it's almost closed already.  I probably should have started at a lower weight, but I was being a bit paranoid.  Assuming the end result works out well, I'm *definitely* going to do it again.  Super fun.

Some possible mistakes on my part: Again, I cut the curds too big.  I also cooked them for the length the recipe said, but they didn't look quite ready to me, even after I extended the cooking time a bit.  I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like, so I just went with it.  The curds were draining whey like crazy.  I cut and stacked them and they compressed *really* well (even getting that layered look you are supposed to get).  I think I could have cut them and stacked them one more time because at milling time, the weight was still 745g.  I didn't know how much salt to mill in.  Caldwell says 1% of the curd weight, but then says to use a teaspoon for a 8 litre batch.  So I'm thinking 1% of the final weight.  But as soon as I added the salt to the curds, it just gushed more whey and I'm pretty sure almost none of it made it into the curds.  We'll see.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 04:27:48 AM by mikekchar »

River Bottom Farm

  • Guest
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 04:51:14 AM »
Glad your make went well mikechar. Hopefully the salt at least penetrated some otherwise the pH might get too low on you. I'm glad your knit was without issues.

Offline mikekchar

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Shizuoka, Japan
  • Posts: 1,015
  • Cheeses: 118
  • Default personal text
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2019, 12:28:24 AM »
I was reviewing my notes last night and I realised that I made a mistake.  The eagle-eyed among you will notice that there are no instructions for cooking the curd after it hits 34 C.  In the original recipe, it says to cook it for up to 1 hour, until the curds are ready.  So *this* is why my curds didn't looked ready and why there was so much whey left in them.  However, the cheese is fairly dense -- I forgot to weigh it, but it's probably about right.  There were some bits where the cheese pokes through the mould and I had a taste of those.  Miniscule amount that it was, it's hard to say, but it seems to have a very nice flavour -- very buttery, just the right amount of acid.  Possibly my problems mostly cancelled themselves out.  I'm going to be eating this one young, so we'll see how it goes...  Now I want to make another one properly :-)  I have guests coming this weekend, so I probably don't have time to make another cheese for a while, unfortunately.

Offline mikekchar

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Shizuoka, Japan
  • Posts: 1,015
  • Cheeses: 118
  • Default personal text
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2019, 02:43:08 AM »
I have pics of my not-so-brined-not-so-caephilly.



This is at almost exactly 4 weeks.  You can see there is a fair amount of blue.  I decided to not go crazy on getting rid of it as long as the geotrichum dominated.  Cutting into the cheese:



It's *very* soft for a Caerphilly :-)  There is some softening around the edges.  It reminds me of something.... wait a minute!



Yep.  It's a dead ringer for my Tomme #3 :-)

This cheese has a nice flavour -- just a bit buttery and cheddary.  Better than the Tomme #3 in that respect.  In fact, it tastes very much like a mild Tomme de Savoie.  It's lacking in acidity and of course it's much too soft for a Caerphilly.  Hopefull #2 (which is in the cave now) will be better.

Incidentally, I decided to rub Caerphilly #1 and transfer what I could of the geotrichum that I could to #2.  Today I was rewarded with #2 being almost completely covered in geotrichum -- so in 2 days I got as much growing on it as I usually do in a week.  Not having a proper cave, I think this is the best way I have to build up my terroir :-)

Offline awakephd

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Cheeses: 240
  • compounding the benefits of a free press
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2019, 03:36:52 PM »
AC4U for your successful CaerTomme! :)
-- Andy

Offline Susan38

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Northeastern California
  • Posts: 205
  • Cheeses: 28
  • Default personal text
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2019, 03:12:50 PM »
Wow!  That is one beautiful looking cheese!  The rind is very *artsy* looking.  And the paste texture looks really smooth and silky.  Another c4u!

AnnDee

  • Guest
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2019, 03:36:41 PM »
I think that is one fantastic looking Caerphilly, similar to Gorwydd Caerphilly from Wales. Kudos to you Mike.
I attach a pic of Gorwydd Caerphilly.

Offline mikekchar

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Shizuoka, Japan
  • Posts: 1,015
  • Cheeses: 118
  • Default personal text
Re: Brined Caerphilly?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2019, 08:24:50 AM »
Thanks Anne!  I have to say that reading your posts has really helped me.  Your advice on the relationship between geo and b. linens especially made a lot of things click for me.  I'm quite happy with this cheese.  I've been nibbling away at it and it's actually getting nicer, so I think 5-6 weeks is a better aging time than 4 weeks.  I'll probably try that for the next one unless something comes up.