Floc times longer than 60 mins.

[Shalloy]

Today I had a crack at a blue cheese recipe and followed the recipe here

https://www.littlegreencheese.com/tag/blue

It says to heat the milk up to 30C then remove from the heat.
This recipe is 4 litres and says use 1/4 tsp (which is about 1ml) of rennet and check after 60 mins.

It was still quite runny at 60 mins and the temperature had dropped to 27C even though I had it wrapped in towels. I let it go for another 30 mins and even though I didnt really have a  clean break I still cut the curds, waited 10. ins then stirred salt in and scooped them into hoops as per the recipes instructions.

When I made my camembert I used 7.5 litres of unhomogenised milk and 2mls of rennet and had a decent clean break after 60 mins keeping the milk at 32C the whole time.

Is the temperature drop the reason why I didnt get the clean break in 60 mins? Why does the recipe say to remove from heat then if you need to maintain heat for the entire time??  Im a little confused by the many different contradictions in recipes for the same cheese.

[pickles]

This isn't a final or a definitive answer but there are a number of things worth keeping an eye upon.

Rennet needs to be stored in a cool place in the dark, a fridge is ok.

It is a good idea to add your rennet to about 50ml of unchlorinated water first, just before you add it to the mix.
The rennet will mix in much better if it is pre-diluted like this but it mustn't be left diluted for any length of time as it will rapidly deteriorate.
You also need to stir it in well for around a few minutes, mixing from bottom to top.
It is important to get the rennet well distributed into your heated milk.

If this still doesn't get results try upping the amount of rennet to half a teaspoon.
Observe what you see happen and keep notes.

Recipes and quantities can need tweaking as the ingredients you source and the environment you are working in will probably vary from the author of your method.

As for temperature drop, if the recipe was put together in a warm region then little regard would need to be made to cooling. You might have a different situation.

If these few indicators don't help then there is probably someone more experiencd than I here who will reply.

Always ask, it is a good way to make progress.

[Shalloy]

Thanks Pickles... The guy who did the recipe lives here in Melbourne like me but did it in Feb (Middle of summer). its now middle of winter here so thats a good point.  Next time I will keep the heat up using my double boiler urn setup with temp controller.

I did everything you said except... Even though I diluted my rennet with a 1/4 cup of demineralised water I think I did it during the 45 min rest after the cultures were added. So next time I will mix just before adding to the milk.

What will be the expected outcome of the cheese? Is it still worth ageing them or time to throw out?

[pickles]

It is my opinion that each cheese is a law unto itself, there are so many variables.
If you make a note of what happened and next time record any changes you try then eventually you will approach what you hope for.

Get another cheese on and see if you can get it right. If it works come back and report how you got it to work, with a picture if you can.
If you are still having problems then explain what happened here on this thread and someone could well help you find the answer.

As for your 'failed cheese', I couldn't really advise, I too am only a beginner. If it doesn't smell off, leave it to ripen for a month, then slice it on bread and stick it under the grill?
It would be a shame to waste your efforts.

It's all a learning experience. It took me a while to achieve a clean break. Eventually I used more rennet, I had only been using a few drops, now clean breaks aren't a problem and I use about 1/3 tsp in 6-8 litres of milk.
I did try a full tsp, half a tsp and arrived at 1/3 after several attempts. I think the idea is to find the minimum that will produce a good result.
I don't think there is an absolute answer other than be willing to experiment and take failure as an essential part of the learning process.

Also share your findings, there could well be someone out there looking for the knowledge you have collected, however insignificant it may seem.

[Bantams]

I think the temperature is the problem. 86F/30C is about the very lowest you can go for rennet to work effectively/in a timely manner. Dropping to 80F/27C will throw off everything.
4 liters is a very small amount of milk that will have trouble maintaining a temp. Next time use a water bath to stabilize the temperature.
Once you start working with larger amounts of milk (like 4+ gallons) the temp will hold just fine and no need for a water bath.

Just an FYI, I believe you're referring to "curd readiness" vs "flocculation". Flocculation refers to the very first sign that the milk is beginning the coagulation process - by no means is it ready to cut at that point. Usually flocculation occurs around 10-16 minutes. It's an almost imperceptible change, best seen by floating a small round plastic tub on the surface of the milk and spinning it. The moment it ceases to spin readily is your point of flocculation. Most commercial type recipes base curd cutting readiness off of the flocculation time. For example, an Alpine style cheese will have a multiplier of 2.5 x floc time (roughly 25-30 minutes til cutting) while a softer cheese may use a floc multiplier of 3.5 - 6.

[Shalloy]

I will use my urn again next time and sit the pot in the water like I’ve done in the past.  It has a temp controller. 

Thanks for the explanation on curd readiness.    So what effect will cutting these curds too early have on the final cheese? 

[Bantams]

If you cut too early then the curd will lose more moisture, resulting in a drier cheese. Some of this can be counteracted by less stirring/cooking later if possible.
But I also think that many cheese resources emphasize a clean break to the extreme and the curd should actually be a softer texture than you might think it needs to be. I just remember my first cheese books describing how the curd should cut firmly, no breaking down of the curd wall as you slice, clear whey on top, etc. That's excessively firm for most cheeses. It should be like creme brulee custard - definitely no whey on top/sides (except lactic set curd).

[Deepti]

My first post being a member of this huge knowledge-base cheese group.

Have been an artisanal cheesemaker from past 5 years, Had a small cheese plant till the covid pandemic. Had been doing soft cheese only since I've been using veg rennet,  which turns bitter for matured cheese (on my trial with Montery Jack and cheddar).

Of late doing single batch of 200L cow-milk mozzarella in brine. Do the traditional method of using culture (preparing mother culture from anthill mud) on raw whole cream cow milk. The yield is around and tastes is simply mind-blowing.

However, yesterday had a situation. The morning atmospheric temp was 22.3deg C. During the healing time, once the curd is cut and whey drained, the temp just shot up to 32 degC. I had to be on my toes. Had to wash the curd in cold water to retard the lactic acid. From cutting to starting to stretch happened in around 2 hrs. Had an yield of 11% since, I lost milk protein.

My understanding, the weather and surrounding temperatures significantly matters through the process of cheesemaking. When doing small batch, loss of milk temp is drastic.