Epic Fail - Robiola Mush! - Saved? - YES !!!

[rsterne]

We tried a Robiola yesterday/today, and everything went perfectly up until cutting the curd.... We were using Ricki's recipe from her book, confirmed by NEC's online recipe, and the coagulation took 14 hours, well within the range of 8-24 hours, and there was a pool of whey on top and the curd was starting to pull away from the pot.... We cut the curd into columns 1.5" square, let rest 5 minutes, and then when we tried to cut the curds smaller (bean sized is called for), they instantly turned to mush.... 

We tried to remove the whey by ladling out of a sieve, but the whey would not even collect in the seive.... Ladling this slop into the moulds was not possible, so we poured it into a muslin lined collander, gathered up the cloth into a sack and hung it for an hour to get rid of some of the whey.... It was still much too slopply, so we squeezed out some of the whey, which was very milky, until we could get the remaining mush into a basket mould, lined with butter muslin, and are currently pressing it with a gallon of water in a milk jug.... It tastes OK, but I have no idea if it will set so that it can be handled and brined....

Once in the moulds (which should have been at 5 AM our time), it is supposed to sit to acidify for 12-18 hours before brining.... I assume we should use the same total time before we brine this (hopefully) lump?.... Anybody have a guess as to whether it will be more or less acidic after the fail during cutting?.... It actually tastes OK, so if we can consolidate and brine it, we may get something edible.... 

Does this epic fail qualify us as Cheesemakers, or are more misadventures called for?.... 

Bob

[Bantams]

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=17268.0
This might help. Add your culture and rennet at the same time when making a lactic curd cheese. 
Also, adding rennet at just 70-something degrees is not generally advisable. I would heat the milk to 86° or so.

[rsterne]

Thanks, Bantam.... I guess the NEC recipe's are marginal then, so I shouldn't be too surprised at this failure.... The answer in the thread you linked to by mikekchar is an awesome explanation.... 

Bob

[mikekchar]

Jim Wallace's recipes (the ones posted on NEC's website) are among the best available.  However, that particular recipe is pants as far as I can tell.  In fact, I can barely believe that it's up there.  You can't stir a semi-lactic cheese curd in my experience.

Look at this passage: "The milk now needs to sit quietly for another 25-40 minutes while the culture continues its work and the rennet coagulates the curd. The thermal mass of this milk should keep it warm enough during this period. It is OK if the temp drops a few degrees during this time." So he's expecting the curd to set in 40 minutes and that the temperature might drop.  From 72 F???  Not likely unless you are living in a refrigerator.

So reading between the lines, I think there is a missing step.  Ripen the milk at 21 F for 4 hours to develop acidity and flavour.  *Heat* the milk to about 90 F.  Add the rennet.  It should be ready to cut in 25-40 minutes (8-12 minute flocculation time, 3.2x multiplier).  Then proceed.  If you wait hours for it to gel, then the pH will go below the point where milk curdles due to acidity.  At this point, you ca *never* stir it.  You have a semi-lactic curd and it needs to be ladled out and drained at that point (like a semi-lactic Brie style).  As Bantams says, rennet really has incredibly low activity below 77 F, so there is no freaking way it will gel before it curdles -- especially if you have pre-acidified the milk.

You will see that the only question in the Q&A section has exactly the same problem and Jim's reply is really weird -- to the point where I literally can't believe it is him replying. Perhaps he just doesn't realise that the recipe is broken???  I don't know, but it's very disappointing.

[rsterne]

Mike, thanks for the detailed (as always) answer.... We were pretty careful, I'm glad the failure seems to be.... A ) very common, and.... B ) not our fault.... 

Stay tuned for our (possible) "save", where we turn this "soup" into a "Robiola Pressato".... (I hope).... 

Bob

[rsterne]

My wife and I decided not to give up on this Robiola, so we launched a rescue mission.... We could not remove the whey with a sieve and ladle, so we poured everything into a muslin lined collander and let it drain (only partially successful).... Then we tied up the muslin and placed a milk jug of water on top to press it lightly, removing more whey.... It was still too much volume for our largest basket mould, so I squeezed the bag a bit (loosing some pretty milky whey), until the slop would fit into the basket, lined with butter muslin.... I put it in the press with the jug of water on top, which compacted it enough to turn it, although it split because it was still very soft.... Once turned, I replaced the follower and pressed at 10 lbs. for an hour, turned and then 20 lbs. for an hour, turned again and then 40 lbs. for 2 hours, turned again and 40 lbs. for 4 hours.... By that time it was pretty firm, so at the last turn we just used 10 lbs. for 30 min. to even up the shape, and then brined it for 2 hours, turning halfway through.... The total time to brining is in the middle of the window for the total acidification time in the original recipe.... We ended up with this, weighing 15 oz. (from 4.5 litres = 1.2 gal of milk/cream mix).... a 9.5% yield.... 



It is pretty firm, so we will air dry it and then put it in the cave for a week.... Not a Robiola, methinks, but hopefully something tasty, or at least edible.... 

We have dubbed it our "Robiola Pressato".... 

Bob

[rsterne]

Well, our "Robiola Pressato" turned out quite tasty!.... It is soft and moist, with a creamy texture.... The predominant flavours are salt and sour, but in a very pleasant blend.... and overall, very palatable.... Considering what it looked like after we cut the curd (mush), gathering up the mess and pressing it produced a very nice result.... 

Bob

[stantovitch]

Jim Wallace's recipes (the ones posted on NEC's website) are among the best available.  However, that particular recipe is pants as far as I can tell.  In fact, I can barely believe that it's up there.  You can't stir a semi-lactic cheese curd in my experience.

Look at this passage: "The milk now needs to sit quietly for another 25-40 minutes while the culture continues its work and the rennet coagulates the curd. The thermal mass of this milk should keep it warm enough during this period. It is OK if the temp drops a few degrees during this time." So he's expecting the curd to set in 40 minutes and that the temperature might drop.  From 72 F???  Not likely unless you are living in a refrigerator.

So reading between the lines, I think there is a missing step.  Ripen the milk at 21 F for 4 hours to develop acidity and flavour.  *Heat* the milk to about 90 F.  Add the rennet.  It should be ready to cut in 25-40 minutes (8-12 minute flocculation time, 3.2x multiplier).  Then proceed.  If you wait hours for it to gel, then the pH will go below the point where milk curdles due to acidity.  At this point, you ca *never* stir it.  You have a semi-lactic curd and it needs to be ladled out and drained at that point (like a semi-lactic Brie style).  As Bantams says, rennet really has incredibly low activity below 77 F, so there is no freaking way it will gel before it curdles -- especially if you have pre-acidified the milk.

You will see that the only question in the Q&A section has exactly the same problem and Jim's reply is really weird -- to the point where I literally can't believe it is him replying. Perhaps he just doesn't realise that the recipe is broken???  I don't know, but it's very disappointing.

Noob here, and oh my gosh, I am so glad I found this post.  I too have been having "NEC robiola yogurt curd" and finally sat down and made an Excel sheet comparing all sorts of similar recipes, and NONE of them were like the robiola recipe.  They all required earlier (and more) rennet addition and higher heat -- or the curd was not cut but ladled.  I thought I was losing it.  Since I don't have a lot of experience, though, I haven't been able to figure out how to adjust the recipe to make robiola successfully.

Going to try your suggestions next round .

[bansidhe]

Yay!  Score one for the little guy!  One nice thing about making cheese is even "fails" can be delicious.  So, happy you can have your cheese and eat it, too!