Author Topic: Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc  (Read 4235 times)

Flound

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Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc
« on: January 18, 2021, 07:20:52 AM »
I shot a video for one of the fresh cheeses I make.

It's the make I used for my very first cheese and it seemed only fitting it was the first cheese to tackle on my second plunge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s1JhdH6dQQ


not_ally

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Re: Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2021, 03:20:08 AM »
Good video! Easy to watch, usually for me the pacing is too slow or too fast. This was just right.

Flound

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Re: Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2021, 09:53:58 AM »
Thanks, Mex! I'm having lot of fun making them, the videos and the cheeses. I'm tickled pink you liked it.

Offline pickles

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Re: Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2021, 11:55:06 AM »
I very much like the video, Flound. Your presentation comes across well.
I'll be making some of this cheese, using your method, later on this morning.

I took the liberty of making a few notes and I've included them here:

Quote
fresh cheese - 'fromage frais'

[notes taken from video by Flound + some additions by me]
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,19262.0/topicseen.html

I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING AMISS WITH THE QUANTITIES IN THIS RECIPE
IT  DOESN'T SEEM TO WORK OUT AS EXPECTED
DON'T USE THE RECIPE UNTIL IT HAS BEEN CORRECTED!!


full milk 4L
heat medium/low to 80°C [75-85°C]
cool to 32°C [30-35°C]
add 1L room temp cultured butter milk

lemon juice or vinegar
add one tablespoon at a time and stir gently after each addition,
continue until the curds separate from the whey

stir well, let stand for 15 minutes

separate using cheese cloth/tea towel/j-cloth in a colander
leave to drain 15 minutes in colander
tie up cloth and hang
to drain for a further 30-45 minutes [according to how dry you want it]
weigh for yield
add 1-1.5% salt
thoroughly mix salt in

age for at least a day to develop flavour

========
suggestions:
doesn't melt but mixes well
mix with a little olive oil, pepper and serve on crackers
mix with raisins and olives

save whey in bottle milk came in
use for baking
make a whey shake
========
Note that even 3 or 4 days in the fridge for a fresh cheese can make a noticeable difference to flavour.
========
to make buttermilk
[buttermilk is only available here in small quantities so buy small and culture more]
add tub of StIvel cultured buttermilk to whole milk made up to just under 1L
seal in a jar for 24-36 hours at 21-23°C
until thickened
refrigerate or use
========


If I've got anything wrong or there could be improvements please let me know, I'm always ready to learn.

Keep making the videos Flound, you have a talent and must use it!!

« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 04:00:58 PM by pickles »

Offline pickles

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Re: Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2021, 04:15:35 PM »
This morning, after trying the recipe I posted above I marked it with a warning.

I think the measurements should have been in pints not litres.
I got around double the yield shown in the video. [I got over 1.3kg cheese - the video showed around 690g produced].

We are going to have to eat a lot of baked potatoes now :p

A 600g yield would have been much better.

Unfortunately my cheese was also too salty, I added 16g salt [1.25%].
I think about 8g for 1.3kg [0.65% salt] might have been better.

Sorry I am being such a moaner. I'm just concerned that someone inexperienced might be put off cheesemaking by trying to follow this.

I'll post an amended recipe if I can verify the proper quantities.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 04:20:46 PM by pickles »

Offline mikekchar

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Re: Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2021, 03:57:13 AM »
Traditionally, buttermilk was "milk" that was left over from butter making.  That means that *all* of the fat has been removed and probably a little of the protein as well.  If you buy "buttermilk" in the store, usually they use partly skimmed, or even full fat milk and add a mesophilic culture to it.  This is one of the big reasons that I don't like recipes that add a lot of buttermilk to them -- it's pretty hard to know what the original author intended.  If you look at the beginning of the video: lo and behold! "Cultured Buttermilk 0% M.F".  Not only that, but look at the milk he is using: "Farmers' 3.25% M.F."

I know Pickles lives in the UK an standardised milk is 3.6% fat. Let's assume full fat "buttermilk" as well.  So in Flound's recipe there is 4000 * 0.0325  grams of fat = 130 grams of fat.  With UK standardised milk and full fat "buttermilk", the amount is 5000 * 0.036 = 180 grams of fat -- almost 50% more fat in Pickles's version.  So that potentially accounts for quite a bit of the difference.

There are actually quite a few traditional cheeses made this way, that tend to differ based on the temperature that you are setting the curd.  If you set the curd at about 50 C, you'll get a cheese with a pH of about 5.3 -- this makes Ayib.  If you raise the temperature up to 92 C, you'll have a cheese a bit over a pH of 6.0 and you will also get a higher yield because you get all the whey proteins as well.  This is essentially whole milk ricotta/ricotone -- but there are many, many other names for it.  At 80 C, the pH is about 5.8 - 5.9 when it sets the curd and depending on a variety of factors, you will get some, all or none of the whey proteins.

However, look at the video.  Flound's whey is completely opaque.  That's because he did *not* add enough acid to get all of the cheese.  The pH will be higher.  If he had upped the temperature after that point, he would have gotten a much higher yield.  If Pickles added enough acid to get the pH down to 5.8, for instance, the whey would be fairly clear (or at least cloudy -- unhomogenized milk produces cloudy whey, usually).

But let's do the math:

Flound: 690 / 5000 = 13.8% yield with an average milk fat in the milk of  2.6%

Pickles: 1300 / 5000 = 26% yield with potentially an average milk fat of 3.6%

There are a couple of reasons for the difference.  One is the fat level.  The other is that this kind of cheese gets maximum yield at a pH of about 5.9.  Also Flound clearly wasn't extracting all of the cheese from that whey.  Even saying that, 26% yield is unreasonable for this kind of cheese.  It means that the cheese was quite a bit moister.  I'm *guessing* that Pickles drained it in the fridge, which will interfere with the draining.  There may be other reasons.

But actually, as I type this:

Quote
full milk 4L
heat medium/low to 80°C [75-85°C]
cool to 32°C [30-35°C]                          <----- This step is not in the video!!!
add 1L room temp cultured butter milk

So, you are making a completely different cheese Pickles ;-)  I leave all the other details for interest sake.

As to the salting level -- the higher the moisture content, the less salt you need.  It really is amazing the difference.

Offline pickles

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Re: Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2021, 08:43:04 AM »
I forgot to mention the actual quantity of lemon juice I added. As the quantity was not clear in the video, I added and stirred in one tablespoon at a time.
The curds eventually separated after 21 tablespoons [probably around 360ml juice].

Perhaps the acid [however much] should have been added at 80°C, as it appeared in the video, but I had guessed [maybe wrongly] that adding a mesophilic culture [the buttermilk] at this temperature would not be a good idea. So I dropped the temperature to abour 32°C before adding that room temp buttermilk. After addition the temp settled at 31°C, continuing to drop as the process proceeded.

I also drained, at around 20°C [room temperature] through a straining bag hanging for more than an hour to allow a bit more more whey to emerge. The result was quite reasonably solid, a sort of 'cream cheese' consistency, good for spreading on crackers.

To be accurate, I used 3.5L of milk [the actual contents of a 'six pint' jug of British whole milk].

The stats on the milks I used are:

Quote
Nutritional Values

Whole milk:

Typical values   Per 100ml   
Energy kJ   276   
Energy kcal   66   
Fat   3.7g   
of which saturates   2.4g   
Carbohydrate   4.7g   
of which sugars   4.7g   
Fibre   0g   
Protein   3.5g   
Salt   0.11g[


Cultured Buttermilk:

Typical values   per 100g:
Energy   247kJ   
58kcal
Fat   0.1g of which saturates   Trace
Carbohydrate   8.8g
of which sugars   7.8g
Protein   5.5g
Salt   0.18g

/quote]

If the cheese had not been so heavily salted I think it would have been okay.


« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 08:54:22 AM by pickles »

Offline mikekchar

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Re: Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2021, 12:42:49 PM »
Yeah, at 32 C you need a *lot* of acid.  You've got to get down to about 5.0 I think.  Ayib is essentially done similarly (without heating the milk first).  You let the milk sour until it's actually just a bit tart.  Then usually they make butter out of the cream.  With the left over sour-ish buttermilk (but not so sour that it starts to thicken), they heat it up to 40-50 C, where it will break.  Milk breaks at different acidities depending on the temperature.  So you can develop a lot of acid in the milk and before it becomes yogurt you can quickly heat it to make cheese.  It's an awesome technique and I've done it many times now.

I'm still a bit perplexed why you had so much moisture.  It's a bit of a mystery.  I would imagine that if you did it again it wouldn't work out like that, but it's hard to say.  Usually I find that the Ayib I make is more like cottage cheese.  You can pretty easily leave it in a mold and it will make a semi-hard cheese.  I think because the high moisture cheese doesn't drain a lot of the salt, that's why you need so little salt for a high moisture cheese.  I always find that tricky.

Flound

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Re: Fresh cheese / Farm Cheese / Fromage Blanc
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2021, 05:35:46 AM »
Lord love a duck, but what a pedantic exercise in nitpicking for next to no gain. :-D

This is meant to be a fast cheese, ready in 90 mins or so. Speed is the focus. I should’ve been clear with that.

Additionally, I happen to use the whey to bake and use as a dog food supplement. There’s zero effort in trying to wring every last gram of fat out of the milk. Just make some cheese.

I also don’t use gobs of acid because it flavours the whey too much. Literally the juice of one lemon. Could’ve said that but there was only one lemon. (Measurement is between 5-8tbsp of juice in a lemon, 6 being the rough median)

Differing milk fats in dairy also affect the overall yield. That’s self evident. I’d also contend that if the moisture content of the curd is different, so will be the weight of the respective curds.

Never cooled the milk before adding the buttermilk, either. Not necessary. As a fresh cheese, no real aging as quantity never lasts long enough to care about preserving the culture to grow and mature a lot.

As an FYI, I’ve made this recipe about 70 times or so and it always works. As it has for the lady who taught me and myriad folks that have followed.

Edit: I tend to chain processes more when I can. E.g.  I usually buy 2-3L full cream (35%MF) and churn butter from that. I use that buttermilk to make me fresh cheese instead of store bought buttermilk. Although I do buy the 3.25% milk to make the fresh cheese. I use the slightly fatty whey to cook the rice used in the dog food I make for my greyhound. She loves whey.

Don’t end up wasting much.

Butter making video https://youtu.be/RJto_asaEcc




« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 06:23:18 AM by Flound »