Author Topic: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions  (Read 5588 times)

InTheWoods

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My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« on: January 26, 2021, 09:47:06 PM »
I am dying to make my first cam and have penicillin and geo molds on order along with the cam hoops, but the package won't arrive until next week.   It's about to storm here for a few days and I have time on my hands.  Soooo......I was thinking, I could go out to the supermarket and pick up a brie or cam and use the rind to innoculate the milk with molds.  I have read most of this forum from start to finish and nowhere do I see anything about what size piece of rind to use to innoculate.  Any recommendations for a gallon batch?

About the hoops, what can I substitute?  I have some quart plastic containers that store-bought yogurt came in.  I can cut them down and pierce holes with my soldering iron.  Cam hoops are bottomless, right?  What diameter are the holes?  I also have some cheap ricotta molds that I can cut the bottoms off of, will that work?

Offline Mornduk

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2021, 11:19:44 PM »
Cam hoops are bottomless. Mine have 1/8th inch diameter holes. I wouldn't cut the bottoms off the ricotta molds, the should still do the trick.

You are saying that you have P.C. and Geo. That means that you're missing the main acidifier (like Flora Danica).

If that's true, then you won't get it from supermarket brie or cam since it's already dead at that point. You'd have to use buttermilk (or yogurt) and culture it... and at that point and given how tricky camemberts can be as a first cheese, you might rather do something else :)

If that was a typo, and you actually have the main culture (usually Flora Danica), then the supermarket brie/camembert's rind can help inoculate the P.C. You can just do a bouquet garni with as much rind as you want to spare and retrieve it from the milk before renetting. Or food-processor it with some water and spray it on the cheese later. In fact you could arguably wait until the cheese is done and your cultures arrive before spraying the P.C. on. Again, given how tricky a good camember is to get right first try, I'd probably try an easier one just to get the cheese bug going. I'd probably do Halloumi with cultured buttermilk... it's easy and foolproof, delicious, you can fry it and taste some straight away, age the rest, and do ricotta with the whey.

InTheWoods

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2021, 11:46:45 PM »
Thank you for your reply Mornduk.

I won't cut the bottoms off the ricotta molds then. 

I don't have any FD (it's on order and will arrive next week), but I do have NEC's buttermilk starter and their meso starter.  Come to think of it, I also have their fromage blanc, fromagina and creme freiche starters.  I am inclined to use either the meso or buttermilk starter and just go for it.  I can always do another batch next week with the correct starter and inoculant molds when they arrive.  I am envisioning this as a trial run to get the hang of cutting the curds and draining/flipping them properly and getting the environmental variables right for mold formation.  If this turns out to be a disaster, it's ok, I am sure I will have learned something.

One more question, I have read that people use anywhere from 3x to 6x flocculation time to let the curd set up and I am thinking I'll probably do a 5xish time.  Any thoughts?

Offline salty_curd

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 11:51:38 PM »
InTheWoods, welcome to the forum!

I have had good success simply rubbing store-bought camembert on my cheeses. I know that others spray to innoculate, but I am not sure how necessary that is. I simply rub my new camemberts with a mature one (after letting the new ones dry, of course) and it seems to work really well.

Be sure to pay attention to temperatures, time and wrapping -- these were areas that I had to work on before getting a really good batch. If you need a hand with any of these, there are many people here who can offer advice.

For the initial mesophilic acidifying culture, I have used buttermilk as per the directions on this forum. But, in agreement with Mornduk, if this is your first cheese, I would just wait for the culture to arrive. Good luck, ask questions, and post photos so we can all learn ;)

InTheWoods

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2021, 11:59:03 PM »
Thank you Salty_Curd!

Rubbing the cheese with another cam!  I would never have thought of that!  What a great idea, I'll have to try that sometime.

I have made halloumi and traditional mozarella and I just have this bug about doing a bloomy rind cheese and a lot of time on my hands for the next few days, so I'm just going to go for it.  >:D

InTheWoods

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2021, 03:06:12 AM »
Huhm...got a coagulation time of 7 min, which is a little bit fast.  I added 1/4 tsp of single strength liquid rennet dissolved in 1/4 cup water.  Oh well, I'll go with a rennet set total time of 35 minutes and test the top of the curd and see what happens.

Offline Mornduk

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2021, 04:05:29 AM »
...I don't have any FD (it's on order and will arrive next week), but I do have NEC's buttermilk starter and their meso starter...
I'd go with the meso one, it's the same as FD without the Diacetylactis and Cremoris, so flavor and gas.

...One more question, I have read that people use anywhere from 3x to 6x flocculation time to let the curd set up and I am thinking I'll probably do a 5xish time.  Any thoughts?
Your floc time will depend on the recipe. Basically on acidity and temp. If you're subbing FD for Meso and not checking pH you're deviating anyway from whatever written recipe you had.... When in doubt I'd pick the longer floc time, since you're doing a Cam and you want it to capture water.

Offline Mornduk

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2021, 04:12:06 AM »
Huhm...got a coagulation time of 7 min, which is a little bit fast.  I added 1/4 tsp of single strength liquid rennet dissolved in 1/4 cup water.  Oh well, I'll go with a rennet set total time of 35 minutes and test the top of the curd and see what happens.

My go-to Camembert recipe flocs in 6 and I leave it for 35 min. The amount of rennet you added seems what you'd need for ~2G of milk to be done at ~90F after a 0.1 drop in pH.

Anyway, you're committed now so good luck and post pictures, may your cheese surpass your expectations :)

InTheWoods

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2021, 04:24:28 AM »
I went with the meso starter, and let the rennet set for 35 min.  Cut the curd and laddled into molds.  The cheese was firming up so I already flipped the first time.  Only damaged one slightly, which is amazing since I am using improvised molds.  I got a good yield of curds, but due to my inexperience I think I used too many molds so the cheeses are going to be too flat, more like brie in dimension.  Live and learn.  ::)  Next time I will fill up the molds higher.

I'll flip then a time or two more before I turn in for the night and let them drain overnight. 

I took lots of pics but I have to figure out how to upload them.  Probably do that tomorrow.

Thanks for your help!

Offline Mornduk

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2021, 04:49:34 AM »
If they are too thin you can still turn them into some great experiment.

Lots of recipes start with thin bries then after a few turns sandwich something between two of them, like dried mushrooms. About halfway through draining in the molds so it will close around the middle layer. Or you could just mount them without anything in between, the PC/Geo are not growing up yet so once it's done nobody will know you didn't have a thick thing from the beginning :)




InTheWoods

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2021, 04:57:41 AM »
Thanks!  Good to know.  Off to turn 4 cheeses in ricotta molds into two cheeses!

Offline Bantams

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2021, 03:48:19 PM »
I use x6 flocc with a goal of 70-85 minutes.

InTheWoods

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2021, 10:10:25 PM »
Bantams,  I was shooting for something like that, but the curd had other ideas.

I'm still working on pics.  I took pics on my phone and they are HUGE, I need to edit them.

Another question.  The cheese is now about 20 hours old.  It is still very moist but it is not dripping anymore.  One of the cheeses is a little bit concave on one side and it had a tiny pool of whey on top before I flipped it.  Probably not more than 1/8 teaspoon of whey.  So my quandary now is should I keep flipping and draining or should I salt it now?  I should add that the cheese is firm and holding its shape if that makes any difference.

I think I am inclined to salt now.  Any suggestions?

InTheWoods

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2021, 11:58:21 PM »
Is it possible to upload pics from Google Drive to here?  I am having trouble figuring it out.

Offline Bantams

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Re: My first post on this forum and a couple of noob questions
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2021, 12:02:01 AM »
I flip once the night the cheese is made, about 4-6 hours after filling molds. Then the next morning/early afternoon I will salt the wheels. Then into the cave on the 3rd day.
Room temperature is critical during the draining phase. Should be 70-72°. Salting helps draw out whey so if you're unsure I would salt on schedule and hopefully that does the trick. And maybe crank up the thermostat if needed!