Can You Direct Salt the Curds of a Gouda Instead of Brining?

[rsterne]

In a conventional Gouda make, you ripen, coagulate, cut the curds, stir them a while, wash them to raise the temperature, and then stir some more at the higher temperature.... When they get to the right consistency (which I understand means pH, I use a grip test), you drain them, press them, and then the next morning you brine the cheese.... What would happen if after draining you salted the curds before pressing?.... I know that would basically stop (or drastically slow) the acidification, which would normally be continuing during pressing, correct?.... Would you have to add more time between the washing and pressing for the pH to drop (and how long)?.... What would happen to the resulting cheese, say after 6 months of aging?.... How would it compare?....

Bob

[mikekchar]

Despite never having made a Gouda style cheese (although I have done many washed curds), I have a few things I kind of disagree with your initial setup.

When they get to the right consistency (which I understand means pH, I use a grip test)

I think this is likely incorrect.  There are 2 aspects here: there is the consistency of the curd and there is the pH.  The consistency includes the curd size, the amount of moisture and also the structure of the curd itself.  Does it have a "juicy" center?  Does it have an even consistency?  Does it have a drier than normal consistency?  That why you stir.  If it were merely pH, then you could just let it sit there.

This is particularly important in a Gouda style because you are washing the curds with warm water.  This not only takes away lactose, but it literally sucks whey out of the curds.  Because the water outside of the curds is hotter than the whey inside the curds, the whey moves outside.  This dries out the curd.  The speed that you add the water is crucial because it determines how fast you dry out the curds.

and then the next morning you brine the cheese

While this is technically correct in some ways, I think there is a bit of cargo culting here (not on your part necessarily, but on the recipe writers).  You salt when the pH is right, not the next day.  I've heard descriptions that a Gouda style will "bottom out" if you leave it overnight resulting in no lactose left at all.  Having run the numbers a few time recently, I don't think that's actually likely.  I think that the Netherlands has historically been chilly at night :-)

There is so much I don't understand about this stuff.  One of the things that blows my mind is that it appears that the pH that you drain cheese at actually changes the structure of the corresponding cheese.  For example, if you have a drain a cheese as a pH of 5.9 and salt it at 5.2, it will have a different texture than cheese drained at a pH of 6.4 and salted at 5.2.  How?  Why?  Or maybe I'm wrong :-)

In the same way, I think that how the cheese drains is likely quite important.  Draining at low temperatures rather than draining at high temperatures probably changes the structure of the cheese.  So the "leave it overnight" may be important, but it's not the "overnight" that's important.  It's the temperature -- it just happens that it takes 8 hours to acidify to the right point at that temperature.

I don't have answers to your questions, I'm afraid.  I think I likely just gave you more questions.  But basically, the only way to realistically find out is to try it.

[Bantams]

Only cheddars and their kin are salted in the vat before pressing, because they have a big enough pH drop from all that cooking and stirring. A Gouda should be fairly sweet going into the press.
The higher the pH at draining, the smoother and more elastic the texture in the finished cheese (due to calcium retention which is otherwise lost through acidification and stirring). 
I'm not referring to super moist cheeses like feta that have considerable pH drops post-draining - those are a bit different since the curd is so wet at draining.   

You could certainly try it but it probably won't be Gouda

[rsterne]

Thanks for your replies.... I pretty much thought salting before pressing would make the cheese sweeter, and not a Gouda....

I am actually interested in how a Gouda compares to my "Drunken Dutchman", which is a wine-infused cheese that is a washed curd.... It is like a Gouda right up until the end of the washing and cooking, but when drained it then spends an hour in a warm (85*F) pot, being broken up to keep the curd from matting.... Like cheddaring, but keeping the curds loose, I guess.... Then it is soaked in the wine for an hour, which is at room temp.... It is then salted and pressed....



Although the curds looked right for a Gouda before draining, after an hour they were much smaller, and had lost a bit more whey, which is drained before the wine soak.... By the time I pressed it, the curds did not want to knit, it took 3.5 psi overnight to get a decent surface, and I did an extra 16 hours at 7 psi to get to the point where I was confident they wouldn't fall apart when aging (which they didn't).... The cheese is nice, but too dry.... However, it is not too crumbly and slices "OK"....

I want to end up with larger, moister curds that knit better, and a moister finished product.... It will be kept a maximum of 4 months.... Do you have a suggestion how to improve it?.... I am thinking eliminate the "ripening" in the warm pot (or maybe reduce it to 30 minutes).... and/or possibly cut the wine soak in half as well?....

Bob

[broombank]

what you have done is of great interest to me. There is a cheese called Lincolnshire Poacher made north of the city of Lincoln in England. It has an intense flavour and a consistency somewhere in between Gouda and Cheddar. I found some in a brilliant new cheese shop in Haddington near to Edinburgh last weekend was so impressed I'm going to try to make it this week. It uses the washed curd method like Gouda, but with a much smaller curd size and then shreds and salts the curd before pressing.  https://lincolnshirepoachercheese.com/about-us/cheese-making/ 
So let us know how your cheese turns out.

[rsterne]

I read that article, and I don't see anywhere it says the curd is washed.... it looks like a pretty normal Cheddar recipe?....

As I said, the cheese was extremely difficult to get to knit.... Part of that could be the wine soak for an hour.... I ended up using 170 lbs. on a 5.5" diameter mould, which works out to 7 psi, and that barely did it.... The photo shows the rind is still cracked.... A while back I did a Cantal, and it knit up OK at 7 psi, and I usually only use 3.5 psi for a Cheddar....

Since the cheese is wine infused, it is not intended to be long aged, something on the order of 2-3 months is typical.... We waxed ours, and cut out a quarter at 1 month, and we will be eating a quarter each month until it is 4 months old.... You can taste both the cheese and the wine, with the wine being the prominent aroma.... but neither taste is dominant at present.... I expect the taste of the wine to fade, and the cheese to predominate as it ages.... The cheese is quite dry, drier than a typical Cheddar.... It slices OK, being only slightly crumbly, and breaks easily if you bend a slice.... I suspect if I only pressed it at 3.5 psi it would have been quite crumbly....

Bob

[broombank]

sorry my mistake - no washed curd - but shredded and salted at ph 5.4 - also cut /stirred to size of rice grains. Undoubtedly the cheese tastes and feels more like a Gouda than a Cheddar - uses a Themophilic /Alpine type culture