Problems with Camembert make

[MacGruff]

I've tried making a Camembert following the instructions from Mary Karlin's book and failed both times.

The first time, I thought it odd that she asked for an 8" mold as the resultant cheese was a very flat disk that only measured about an inch (2.5 cm) in height, given that she uses only about 3 Quarts of milk (3 Liters). On my second make, I used a much smaller mold and the resultant cheese looked much better at the end of the make - going in to the cheese cave - as far as size goes, but both times it failed within a day or two in exactly the same way. Please see the attached photo for the current mess.

Basically, after one day in the cave (at 55 degrees F and 90% humidity) the cheese starts flattening out and the milk oozes out. Yuck!

I am curious if others have had that problem and if you have any solutions?

Her recipe calls for 5 TABLESPOONS of salt added to the curds when starting the drying process. I find that highly suspicious as, to me, that is a HUGE amount of salt. I searched this forum for other Camembert recipe and have not seen anyone use that much salt. This successful link:  http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13412.0.html   uses a whole lot less. So, could that be the problem?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

[Bantams]

What kind of milk are you using?
She calls for far too much rennet, then doesn't specify a flocc or cut time. 
When did you cut the curd?

The recipe looks great except for the amount of rennet, and the fact that you add the salt to the curd. The salt is likely halting acidification prematurely and the curd isn't adhering due to that. 

I like to use 0.66ml/gallon rennet, then flocc of 6, ladle and drain a few hours, flip and drain overnight, then salt by coating wheel and tapping off extra, drain 24, then into 50° for initial aging. Then wrap and age at 44° or so.

[broombank]

in my view you are unmoulding much too quickly - you need to turn frequently  in the mould over a draining mat for at least 48 hours until the cheese is quite solid - after that you can turn it out and use paper towel to draw out some more moisture prior to salting - the consistency by the time you have finished salting should be quite firm. If the cheese is too thin then use a smaller mould. Whatever the size of the mould the curd should be heaped when it is originally scooped.  There certainly should be no ooze from the cheese. Don't reduce the temperature until the P. Candidum is well established at room temperature - then reduce to 10C for at least another week - then to 7C for another month. I hope this is helpful

[Aris]

5 tablespoons is an insane amount of salt on a small batch of cheese. It shouldn't look that moist if you used that much salt. I only use 2% salt on my bloomy rind cheese. I only unmold my bloomy rind cheese after it has absorbed all the salt so it doesn't change its shape. With bloomy rind cheese, it should be acidic (4.6-4.8 pH) before you dry salt it.

[MacGruff]

"What kind of milk are you using?" ==>  3 Quarts of Whole Milk from the supermarket
She calls for 1/4 teaspoon of Rennet, which is also the amount specified on the bottle for 1 gallon. I cut back a bit since I am using only 3 quarts.
I used the Floc method since - as you noted - she did not give a time. The curds were totally set at 13 minutes, and I cut them right after that.

I drained and flipped every hour until it stopped draining. When I put it in the cave, it did NOT look like that picture!!!     It looked very good actually. That picture was taken two days later.

I think I am seeing the pattern here - which is what I am also suspecting - that the quantity of salt is killing this cheese. She also has me adding the salt into the curds before molding. So, between the huge quantity of salt and it being in the curds, I suspect that's the problem.

Next time I will do the same, except not add the salt to the curds, but spread it on the top, bottom, and sides after it's formed better.

Thanks for all the advice folks. I will report back here after my next attempt.

[Bantams]

Sounds like a good plan!
And lengthen that renneting time - 65-90 minutes is more appropriate.

[Gregore]

If you cut the curds right after the 13 minutes flock time ?  Then that is way too early you need to wait the flock time plus a multiplication factor of about 4 to 6  depending on rennet amount for that type of cheese  so 52 to 78 minutes.   You might be able to save this as an edible cheese by  scooping it into  a few of the shortest small canning jars and aging it out for a few weeks and then start tasting it , you can lay the lid on top to keep moisture in , no screw cap though .

Let us know it it ends up eatable

Gregore

[MacGruff]

I will try this again this weekend and will report back in about a week.

The "Sad Camembert" of the photo, is in the dumpster. It broke down completely and oozed milky and creamy liquids all over my refrigerator shelves and I spent over an hour yesterday cleaning those shelves out and drying them. Smelled pretty bad too.

C'est la vie.

Thanks for the advice folks.

[paulabob]

Sending AC4U.  For your loss.   

[stephmtl222]

I would suggest you try a more standard camembert recipe like the recipe at cheesemaking.com
https://cheesemaking.com/products/camembert-recipe?_pos=1&_sid=6b66c872f&_ss=r

The Mary Karlin recipe is odd. Like adding the salt to the whey before ladeling the curd into the mold ? Missing some importants details too.

[mikekchar]

Mary Karlin has some weird recipes.  Her buttermilk blue has 2 liters of milk, 500 ml of cream and 1 *liter* of live buttermilk.  *And* she adds a mesophilic culture (why???  You've got 1 liter of live buttermilk in there... I'm just saying...)  Then she adds 1/2 teaspoon of rennet to the thing to somehow try to get around the fact that the milk is already at an insanely low pH and she has probably 30 seconds to set the curd before it goes to mush.

The cool thing is that it seems to "work", in that it apparently makes a nice cheese.  It's a completely insane way to do it, but if it works, it works I guess :-D  This is basically why I always recommend people read Caldwell's book before they look at *anything else*.  It's the only book that I know of that's not full of weird or wrong stuff. (Disclaimer: I haven't read every cheesemaking book... yet).

[MacGruff]

Almost one week into the next make and it's looking much better. White fuzz is forming on the nicely holding up small wheel. The recipe I concocted from what I found on this site - including the helpful comments you all made! - is attached to this post.

I do have one topic I am not sure about though. In about a week I will reach that point where you all tell me to wrap the developing cheese and put it in the lower-temp. Since I only have the one cheese cave, I can certainly lower the temperature in it - but what about the other cheeses then? do I do only Camemberts? Or, can I take the young Camembert and put it in a regular fridge (since it's wrapped, does it need to be in a high-humidity environment)? and continue using my cheese cave for the other cheeses I've got coming along?

As usual, thanks for the collective wisdom!

[Bantams]

Right, no need for specific humidity once the cheese is wrapped.  But I think a normal fridge is too cold. Maybe try the door? I'd rather have it too cold at that point than too warm. 
Your cheese may be ready to wrap earlier - 8-9 days in my experience is most common. Wrap when the mold has just finished covering the wheel. A few sparse patches are ok.

[mikekchar]

I always use the normal fridge.  It seems to mature at a reasonable rate and I get good flavour development.  I probably run my normal fridge a little higher temp than most people, though.  We buy food every few days rather than every week or so.  I actually keep all my in the normal fridge in the vegetable crisper which seems to keep a nice constant temp.

[broombank]

totally agree with mikkchar about Gianaclis Caldwell's book - a mine of totally reliable information - should be the baseline for any serious cheesemaker.