Guido's and rennet amount

[Zapacat]

Hi all,

This cheese is a fast ripening hard Italian cheese, ready in about 3 weeks.

It calls for about double the amount of rennet as usual. When I work out the IMCU/L it's about 94. It has a very short set time of 15 minutes. I'm guessing because of the extra rennet. Im also guessing the flocculation multiplier then would be about 2.

Im curious as to what the benefit of extra rennet is? Im wondering if maybe that is why it can be ready in 3 weeks; perhaps the extra enzyme activity helps with faster aging?

Thanks!
Teresa

[mikekchar]

Rennet is an enzyme that breaks certain links in casein (the protein that we make cheese from).  The more rennet you have, to a certain extent, the faster it will break down the casein during aging, and (again to a certain extent) the faster it will "age".  People who know a lot more than me on this topic intentionally add extra rennet to get this effect.  Personally, I think it's a bad idea.

Different enzymes break proteins apart in different places.  Each protein piece that you break apart has a different flavour.  The flavours that you get initially from breaking down casein with rennet are bitter.  I just don't think that's what anybody intends.

It would not be the first time I've disagreed with a recipe that originated in Ricki Carrol's book ;-)  That's not to say that I'm correct, though.  There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in my philosophy...  I've found lots of things that I would swear can't work, but do.  Still, I wouldn't personally follow that kind of recipe.

[Bantams]

I agree, skip the Ricki Carrol recipes and go with something from Gianaclis Caldwell (books) or Peter Dixon (online).

[Zapacat]

Thanks, Mike and Bantams.

I dont actually have her book, I have Caldwell, however, the Gavin Webber vid popped up in my feed so I thought Id give it a try. Everyone on the Learn to Make Cheese Facebook group seems to love this cheese and no comments about bitterness. I made 2 in quick succession as I needed to use up some milk and I had limited time. Its a quick make.

I dont get many parts of the recipe, not just the rennet amount but also the super light pressing weights and the mould size as compared to the L of milk, but thought Id give it a try since so many people seemed to have success with it.

I had initially not even looked at the rennet amount (and the cut time) because I use raw milk so went with the IMCUs that I normally use (aiming for a flocc time of 12 mins) and a flocc multiplier of 2 (since its apparently a hard Italian cheese).

But then when I actually had time to think about it, I got to wondering why the cut time was so short. That made me look at the rennet amount which made me realize that its high enough that probably they were getting flocc in about 7-8 mins which would then tell you to cut at 15 mins if a multiplier of 2. That made me wonder why the extra rennet and if I was missing something.

I asked on the group whether the extra rennet had any purpose but the answer was just so you got a strong coagulation.

The first one I used 9L milk, a 6.5" diameter mould, and pressed at 11kg throughout and got a nice close. IDK how this amount of curd would even get pressed in the 8" tomme called for.

The one I made today I used 15L milk and used the tomme. I tried to press closer to the stated weights but didn't dare go as low as they recommended) just to see what would happen. As I suspected, the rind hasn't closed well on the sides. I've got it pressing overnight at a heavier weight to try to improve the closure.

I really don't understand how people get it to close with that amount of weight but apparently, they do. I pressed under the whey for the first 2 presses to try and help it out but I still had to trend to higher weights to get it to close.

<shrug>
Teresa

[mikekchar]

Closing a tomme with little weight requires draining it when the pH is quite high.  The higher the pH, the easier the curds knit, in my experience.  In terms of weight, I often recommend ignoring what it says in the recipes.  Your circumstances will be different than theirs.  The goal should be to close the cheese when it has finished draining.  So you want enough weight that it closes at about the 2 hour mark (which is when it is usually finished draining).  My normal flip schedule is 15 min twice and 30 minutes 3 times, for a total of 2 hours.  For a tomme, no weight for the first 15 minutes, then add just enough weight that the mold beads up a bit with moisture, but whey doesn't run.  If it's already draining faster than that, then no weight at all.  I've closed some very small tommes with no weight at all, but it really depends on how you are doing it.

In terms of books, recipes, videos and forums... There are cheese recipes that work and I don't understand how they work :-)  There are cheese recipes that don't work and a great deal of people still believe that they work -- often the author (or video maker) chief amongst them.  There are recipes where I think the author has clearly never actually tried to make the cheese as written -- they were just padding out their book.

Cheese making is subtle and difficult.  Cheese makers are often not subtle, nor do they react well to difficulty.  This makes conversations about cheese making difficult at times.  I know there are tons of things that I think I understand, but I'm wrong about.  There are things I know that I don't understand.  There are things that I don't even know exist.  There are a very few things that I understand and I'm right about :-)  This makes conversations about cheese making hard on my ego... YMMV

[Zapacat]

Hiya,

Yes cheesemaking is definitely humbling. The more I know the more I realize how much I dont know.

Im stuck on it and Im just complaining but I just dont understand how this recipe works so well for so many people when it goes against so much of what Ive learned. I guess Im not following it exactly as written so I suppose I have no right to complain when it doesnt work for me.

Ill see what it tastes like in 3 weeks!

Thanks as always for helping with the chemistry!
Teresa