Aroma B vs Flora Danica vs Bioprox M244 / M235 - Differences?

[matthewterhune]

I've been using Bioprox M244 for fresh cheeses and camembert, and I like it pretty well (was previously using MM100 but the flavor wasn't strong enough for me). I'll be running out soon though, and I'm considering whether to buy more, or a similar mixed culture from a different manufacturer instead. M244 has lactis, cremoris, l. diacetylactis, and leuconostoc, similar to Aroma B and Flora Danica. I know all three of these are going to have different strains / ratios and will differ somewhat in how they behave. I'm wondering if anyone has used more than one, or all three, and could describe the actual practical differences in terms of aroma, acidification rate, texture? Or maybe you've used them and didn't notice a difference, that would also be helpful to know. I've tried searching the forums, and there's a fair bit of "they'll be different" but nothing concrete. I do see that Flora Danica seems to be pretty polarising. Thanks!

[mikekchar]

There are spec sheets from the manufacturer that tell you exactly what you want to know.  Unfortunately, I don't know how to get access to them.  I've seen the Danisco ones (I think there might be a link in the "Library" section of this forum -- just from memory).

These buttermilk cultures can indeed be quite different.  I have discovered, though, that it is relatively easy to culture them from existing cheese (contrary to common wisdom).  If you have access to similar cheeses to what you are making, I'd recommend giving it a try.  Just follow basic sanitation steps.  Mash up about 20g of cheese in some milk and then mix it with another 500 ml.  Leave it at about 25 C for 15-30 hours, or until it gels.  I use new UHT milk for this because it gels better (and is free of bacteria).  Then take about 20g of that yogurt and do it again.  It should go much faster the second time.  Depending on performance, you might want to do it one more time.  At this point it's pretty stable.

I usually try to watch it closely *just* as it's gelling (so keep an eye on it every hour or so when you get to around 12-15 hours in).  As soon as it gels, I stick it in the fridge to slow it down, or reculture it right away.  This keeps the pH relatively high (up around 5.0, I think).  I find that helps maintain a good balance of the main bacteria, since some like it more acidic and some like it less.  This models the whey cultures fairly closely for these cheeses, as well.

If you have a pH meter, you can make a graph of the pH over time, once you have a stable culture.  You can also sample the flavour of the yogurt.  The main thing you'll be missing are the enzymes that develop flavour as it ages.  However, you should have some idea of that from the cheese you originally bought.

BTW, as far as I can tell, this technique of reculturing bacteria from cheese seems to work for basically all cheese that isn't heat processed (i.e. mozzarella would obviously not work).  Even long aged cheese seems to work.  My dad has had a lot of success with cheeses like Emmental (though no proprioni shermanii, it seems).

[matthewterhune]

Thanks for your thoughts Mike! Checking the data sheets was a good idea, and they do have acidification curves, which is useful info. For flavor you just get something like "flavor production: high" though, which makes sense, as flavor is difficult to quantify, but isn't too helpful. Anyone who's used more than one of these cultures able to give a flavor comparison?

The idea of culturing from existing cheese is interesting, but I'm unfortunately in a country where it's basically impossible to buy cheese. Might be something to try if we end up back in the US.

[mikekchar]

I just realised I actually have Biena Aroma B and Flora Danica :-)  I haven't made either of them recently, but from memory, the Flora Danica has more diacetyl (buttery) flavour.  The Aroma B seems to produce more gas.  I remember that because you would think that diacetyl production would be the main cause for gas production :-)  Personally, I like Flora Danica, but it does have a unique flavour.  Possibly its throwing some butyric acid?  So you have undertones of "vomit".  It's just at threshold level and so it rounds out the flavour.  If you want something brighter, I'd go for the Aroma B.  But Flora Danica will be more complex, I think.

Having said that, before I decided to culture my own from existing cheeses, I decided to go the Biena route over Flora Danica.  I probably prefer the flavour of Flora Danica, but Biena is a tiny company, so I thought I'd go that way.  They are close enough that I'm happy with either.  My current favourite cutlure actually comes from a mass produced Camembert style cheese in Japan (Yukijirushi -- or MegMilk).  I don't know what they are using, but it's really delicious.  Great for fresh cheeses.

Edit: I just now realised you live in Papua New Guinea.  I literally made some coffee from there this morning.  It was awesome! :-)

[Bantams]

I haven't used M244 but I've used the other three. Yes they're all a bit different but only subtle differences. On a commercial level the distinctions will be more important but for home use there are so many factors at play that it's hard to decipher the little differences between different cultures. 
I don't think you could go wrong with Aroma A - that's my go to for fresh cheeses. 

[matthewterhune]

Thanks, both of you, for the input. Based on Mike's description I'll probably try the Flora Danica next, though yes, there may not be dramatic differences. I do notice a significant difference between the MM100 and the M244, but the MM100 doesn't include leuconostoc which the other 3 have.

Mike, we're up in the highlands where much of the coffee is grown. We're close to a plantation, and have a tree in our yard. There's a lot of cacao grown here as a cash crop as well, but I think we have some of the only dairy in the country.