beginner questions about making press

[eric1]

I've never made hard cheese before, and I'm wanting to make a cheese press.  A Dutch lever style press appeals to me.  I have some questions about building a press, if anyone can offer any advice:

1. I see a lot of posts with attachments showing plans, etc. of cheese presses, but I haven't figured out how to load those attachments.  Can those attachments still be opened?  If so, what do I need to do?  When I click on attachments I just see: "404 - Attachment Not Found"

2. Would it work to build a mold/basket with vertical wooden slats like the baskets on a lot of cider presses?  If so, what kind of gap would I want between slats?  Do different styles of cheese require molds with more or fewer drain holes, or can one mold be used for any style of cylindrical cheese I'd want to make?  I'm particularly interested in making very hard cheese that I'm assuming might be more tolerant of less than ideal temperature and humidity conditions for aging. 

3. Alternately or maybe supplementally, I've considered buying some stainless steel stove pipe and drilling holes in it.  In that case, what size holes do I want and at what spacing?

4. If I'm making cheese using an 8 gallon pot, about what volume of curds should I expect to put into my press?  And about what volume of whey should I expect to drain/press out?  Does it matter if the whey drains away from the cheese or is it okay if the cheese sits in the whey?

5. Is it possible that a lever style cheese press could double for a cider press?  I'm thinking I might be able to build a press that would support up to ~50 lbs of weight with a lever arm that would multiply that by 6 or more times.  Does anyone know how that would compare to screw style cider presses?  What styles of cheese, if any, would require more force than that for an 8 gallon (of milk) size cheese? 

6. If I see a recipe calling for X lbs of pressing weight for a cheese made from 1 gallon (or some quantity) of milk, is there a simple way I can roughly modify that recipe for an 8 gallon batch?  I assume for a larger cheese I'd need more weight, but is there a simple way to figure out roughly how much more?

Thanks!

[rsterne]

Pressure is the key to successful pressing of cheese.... The force required is the pressure times the area, so if you are talking circular molds, the force goes up with the square of the diameter.... An 8" mold will require 4 times the weight of a 4" mold....

I have found that some cheese only require a couple of psi of pressure, Cheddars 2 to 4 times as much.... The minimum on my cheddars is 3.5 psi overnight for the last pressing, and for stubborn ones, that don't want to knit, I use twice that (7 psi)....

Don't press too fast initially, the whey should be dripping out, not running in a stream.... and then increase the pressure so that the rind is knit (or nearly so) by about 2 hours from when you started pressing....

Bob

[mikekchar]

Just a quick reminder that you don't need anything like those pressures if you aren't making cheddars :-)  A tome or butterkase or even a gouda would qualify for most people as a "hard cheese" and only needs at most a milk jug sitting on top of a follower for a 1-2 lb cheese.  Even a Caerphilly can be done with only a few kg of weight if the cheese is relatively small.  If you are making alpine cheeses, as long as you get the curds in the press at a high pH, you also need surprisingly little force.

My advice would be to explore cheese making with a simpler press before you go crazy on the top of the line.

[Aris]

Or you can make a simple bucket press. The only cheese I press is Cheddar and that can even be made without pressing. I use 2 stock pots with water and weight plates to press cheddar.  All cheese can be made without pressing even a hard cheese like Parmesan.
https://theartofcheese.com/make-a-bucket-press/

[eric1]

Aris, thanks for the other ideas, but I happen to enjoy working with wood, so making a simple lever press is no problem, and I don't see any problems I should have building a press that would support a fairly heavy weight at the end of a fairly long lever arm, so I figure I might as well leave myself the option of being able to press at greater psi.  Most of my questions and uncertainties have to do with what I want for a mold.

mikekchar, it seems to me like the press I'm planning to build is quite simple.  I'm just thinking of making a simple lever press without any pulleys or cables or compound levers.  And I'm hoping that's all I'll ever need.

rsterne, thanks for your advice and especially the explanation of how to adjust pressing force to mold size.  What about height of the cheese?  Can I just generally plan to make my cheeses about as tall as their diameter?  Are there cheeses that need to be flatter to come out right?

[paulabob]

Thought I'd speak up on the question of form factor since I just accidentally made a mistake with a cheese.  Height/Width of cheese can matter based on cheese type, although maybe not a great deal. 

Accidentally made one in too narrow a mold (for an esrom).  My cheese might not develop as expected with the difference in surface area.  I suppose it matters more for washed rind or mold developed cheeses.

For cheeses that are vacuum packed, it really won't matter at all as long as the cheese still drains properly in the mold.

My favorite mold is one I got off of etsy, I use it for 90% of my cheeses: https://www.etsy.com/listing/701635296/large-hard-cheese-mold-forma-formaggio?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_-craft_supplies_and_tools&utm_custom1=_k_Cj0KCQiAkMGcBhCSARIsAIW6d0Cj_-l2X9g0iussQcB9wbfcuCQFbfK-7N1mtmRZny9zFyHXYJ4PHrMaAiB-EALw_wcB_k_&utm_content=go_12665398257_121762925993_511610210343_aud-1408996296215:pla-295462056867_c__701635296_139557977&utm_custom2=12665398257&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkMGcBhCSARIsAIW6d0Cj_-l2X9g0iussQcB9wbfcuCQFbfK-7N1mtmRZny9zFyHXYJ4PHrMaAiB-EALw_wcB

I am generally doing 2-4 gallon batches.

[eric1]

paulabob, I see the mold you say is your favorite has a bottom.  Is that helpful?  I was thinking a bottom was unnecessary and could make getting the cheese out of the mold more difficult, but I've never really pressed a cheese before, so I'm only guessing.

[B e n]

Is it possible that a lever style cheese press could double for a cider press?  I'm thinking I might be able to build a press that would support up to ~50 lbs of weight with a lever arm that would multiply that by 6 or more times.  Does anyone know how that would compare to screw style cider presses?  What styles of cheese, if any, would require more force than that for an 8 gallon (of milk) size cheese? 

An apple press wants around 70psi (300psi/70=4.3"^2 which is a 2.34" diameter pressing basket). You could build something compound with a ratcheting action but I think you would need to start integrating some steel to the design, but then you have lost the low pressure resolution you had with a simple cheese press.

[paulabob]

paulabob, I see the mold you say is your favorite has a bottom.  Is that helpful?  I was thinking a bottom was unnecessary and could make getting the cheese out of the mold more difficult, but I've never really pressed a cheese before, so I'm only guessing.

You definitely want a bottom for a heavily pressed cheese, otherwise the curds squish out.  For something light, you often don't have or need a bottom, and flip it rather than pressing.  I have some molds for those, but haven't made any recently.

Generally, whatever you have, the cheese will come out of the mold with no problems.  Only times I've had issues is when I've refrigerated the cheese overnight (to halt acidifcation, and not have to wakeup to baby my cheese overnight).

[eric1]

An apple press wants around 70psi

Thank you!  I definitely can't see getting anywhere near 70psi on a reasonable size basket with a simple lever press, even if I build it extra stout like I'm thinking.  I'm thinking I might be able to get close to a quarter of that (~15 psi) on the very high end.  I was hoping I could kill two birds (cheese and cider) with one stone, but it sounds like I should build my cheese press just for cheese and do whatever I'm going to do for cider separately.  Are there styles of cheese or circumstances where more than 10 or 15 psi might be desirable?  I'll probably have to forget about those styles until I decide to build a second, more complicated press, if I ever decide to do that, but I'm curious what those styles are.

[eric1]

You definitely want a bottom for a heavily pressed cheese, otherwise the curds squish out.

Thanks for all the help.  If I made a false bottom/wooden disc to go in the bottom of a bottomless mold and take up the bottom couple inches of space (and maintain a space between the bottom of the cheese and the bottom of the mold where the curds could squish out) would that serve the purpose just as well, even for heavily pressed cheeses?  Or does the bottom definitely need to be attached to the mold?

[paulabob]

I think it would be the same as no bottom.  The pressure would squish stuff out around the edges.  I've never heard of anyone doing that (someone speak up if you do this with pressed cheeses).

You're welcome to try anything you want of course, but with any new hobby, I find it easier to just do what's recommended, develop some reliable cheese, then try changes.  And honestly, there's enough chances to go wrong with temperature, culture, renett, washing curds, brining, etc, pressing is one of the easiest parts, if you follow the "begin pressing lightly, just beads of whey" technique.

[eric1]

Yes, thank you, I definitely don't want to try to re-invent the wheel as a beginner.

[rsterne]

I have used molds with no bottom, and as long as they are on a flat surface have had no problem with the curds squeezing out the bottom....

Bob

[paulabob]

Thanks for speaking up Bob!  Have you used them with heavier cheese or lighter?  Just curious...