mechanical holes in Alpine style

[borisb2]

After about 1 month of aging my Alpine style cheese I decided to cut it open to have a look and then vacuum seal both halves.

The cheese had a slight swelling (but not much so I didnt worry), but I am seeing a lot of mechanical holes. Taste is ok (not too much flavor so far but I guess thats to be expected after only 1 month) .. Now, depending on what website one is reading the cause either is trapped whey due to over pressing, too less pressing for the cheese type or yeast contamination.

Any thoughts? .. would love to show a pic but that doesnt seem possible here?

it actually relates back to my first post and Mikes reply https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,19831.0.html about overpressing .. so I guess that's the cause?

[Aris]

It might be early or late blowing.
https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php/2023/03/07/early-blowing/
https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php/2023/03/10/late-blowing-cheese/

I use imgur to post photo here.

[borisb2]

finally found a way to upload the pics

http://ambientfx.de/_files/IMG_3076.jpg
http://ambientfx.de/_files/IMG_3078.jpg

could these holes still come from yeast contamination? .. or more likely trapped whey?

[Aris]

If its trapped whey, the interior of the cheese will be damp. Yours look pretty dry. If its yeast, it will have a yeasty smell from what I've read. Holes and cracks can also be created by other microbes. Flora Danica for example has bacteria that can create some small holes. The holes in your cheese doesn't worry me. How is the smell of the cheese? I can't really say that your cheese is safe to eat though.

[borisb2]

smell was ok - also tasted a bit before sealing .. was ok, need more flavor of course

when would I know if it really turned bad?

That actually brings up a related question:
I am also doing a gruyere style at the moment with surface washed rind. For a few days I packed it loosely in plastic foil before putting back in wine fridge (wanted to test that procedure to counterfight too much air movement in the wine fridge), but today I noticed some bad off smell on the rind (not typical stinky socks but different), luckily that went away with fresh air .. when would that turn bad and not be safe to eat anymore? .. this one is also only 1 month into aging

[Aris]

I don't think it would go bad if your milk came from a trusted source, you age it at the right temperature range (50-55 f) and you are meticulous about hygiene and sanitation. Your cheese also looks fine to me. I could be wrong though. I've had a washed rind cheese wrapped in aluminum foil that developed an off flavor on the rind but the cheese itself was still delicious and still safe to eat. I think your Gruyere is fine.

[mikekchar]

I think that cheese is actually under pressed :-)  Likely the real problem is that you didn't get it into the mold soon enough (i.e. you cooked it too long, it lost too much calcium in the vat and became hard to press).  However, I don't think there is any problem at all there.  Gaps from bacterial action will tend to be round and shiny.  Gaps from over pressing will tend to present themselves as a wet horizontal crack (and often the cheese in that area is acidic or bitter and crumbly).  Your cheese looks absolutely fine to me.  Good job!  Just a little tweaking and it will be perfect :-)

[borisb2]

thanks Mike ..

one last question (didnt want to create a new thread just for that):

due to lack of a big enough winefridge I am aging that cheese (as well as the mentioned gruyere) alternating one day in the fridge (7 deg C), and one day under the shelf at about 15-17 deg C .. cheese is always sitting in a proper ripening box with good humidity, just the outside temperature is going from cold to warm when moving the box ... so far when inspecting the aging cheeses (by smelling and touching) I cant see anything bad happening .. how bad is that practise?

[Aris]

I've aged a few cheeses at that temperature range before and they swelled and formed slits and holes in the paste. Clostridium bacteria and other pathogens prefer that temperature range. I age cheese at 50-55 f nowadays and no more late blowing. You cannot tell if a cheese is safe to eat or not by smell alone.

[borisb2]

Yeah, I can imagine. I wouldnt leave them only at 15-17 C (although some websites claim that aging alpine up to 18-20 deg C will be fine ... not sure about that)

My question was how bad alternating temperatues are for aging a cheese. I could leave them (only) in the regular fridge at 8-9 deg but that would slow things down quite a bit I think. My thought was to give them alternating warm and cold days, so to speak ..but that might a bit too unusual

[Aris]

Yeah, I can imagine. I wouldnt leave them only at 15-17 C (although some websites claim that aging alpine up to 18-20 deg C will be fine ... not sure about that)

My question was how bad alternating temperatues are for aging a cheese. I could leave them (only) in the regular fridge at 8-9 deg but that would slow things down quite a bit I think. My thought was to give them alternating warm and cold days, so to speak ..but that might a bit too unusual

Alpine cheese like Gruyere does age at 15 c or colder depending on the maker/affineur. You have to consider they pretty much have perfected their craft, they have very high standard when it comes to sanitation and hygiene, they use the best quality raw milk and they have lab testing. I can't really tell you how bad it is to alternate temperature so I shared my experience aging cheese at 15-17 c. 8-9 c is a lot better because that is still cheese aging temperature and it is consistent. Nothing wrong with slowing things down. Most mass produced cheddar even age at 1.6-4.4 c. I age some of my cheeses at 7-8 c. From what I've read, cold aging results in a cheese with a more complex flavor. The best blue cheeses I've made was aged at 2-4 c. Point is, your cheese is still being exposed to warm temperatures so there is a chance for the Clostridium bacteria and other pathogens to grow. There is a reason cheesemakers typically age cheese at 50-55 f. Parmigiano Reggiano ages at 18 c but it is a very low moisture cheese and they use partially skimmed milk.