Trouble With Kadova

[Sailor Con Queso]

I bought a 2 kg Kadova back in November. Have used it to make 4 different kinds of cheeses so far. Love the shape and ease of use, but 2 out of the 4 cheeses have stuck to the liner. I'm talking SERIOUSLY stuck. I made a Baby Swiss last night. Pressed at about 4 psi overnight. This morning, CHUNKS of the baby came off as I popped it out of the liner. The cheesed had pressed thru the liner to the back side. Required boiling to get rid of the cheese that had pushed thru to the inside of the liner in the follower.

Has anyone else had this happen? In my opinion, there are far to few drainage holes in the hoop. I feel that excess whey is not draining quickly enough and may be contributing to the problem.

[wharris]

I have had a slight problem with this in the past.  I solved it by decreasing the time between flips.
In other words, i flipped more often, not giving the curd time to form around the screen in the liner.

[Cheese Head]

Sailor

While these molds are nice shape I think they are only designed for Gouda washed curd type cheeses with lower pressing weights and time. So far that's all I've used them for and I've not had a problem. So I think it is the combination of higher weight (3.5" radius x 3.5" radius x 3.14 x 4 psi = 154 lb / 70 kg) and time that you are pressing at.

I think as Wayne suggests, more frequent turning? Also, in later/final pressing you could try without the net as this Salmon Arm, BC, Canada cheese maker does at around 2:41 min into video (second one down), albeit overnight and without pressing and I think to get rid of the ridge.

PS: I've found the drain holes adequate.

[Oude Kaas]

According to Peter Dixon, the only reason why the curds press through cheesecloth or the liner, is too much pressure.

[Sailor Con Queso]

I do not think this is a pressure problem since initial pressings with flips have shown no sign of sticking. This only happens on an overnight or long press, when acid production is most active. We have actually had this discussion regarding sticking to regular cheesecloth.

Cheesecloth Sticking

For me, the solution from that discussion was this comment from Ricki Carrol's website.

"This can be a problem due to serious acid production in the mold causing the curd to shrink and thus incorporating the cloth. Best solution is to wet the cloth in weak brine . This added salt should slow acid production a bit near the rind and solve this problem."

I started wetting my cheesecloth in brine solution prior to pressing, and I have never had this problem again.

I have not been doing this with the Kadova, because the liner and follower are a nylon or vinyl (?) material that is not absorbent. So I see two solutions. One - dip the liner and follower in a saturated brine before the final pressing or Two - Dip the cheese round itself in brine for 5 minutes or so just prior to final pressing to slow surface acid production. I'm liking option 2.

[Oude Kaas]

With all due respect, I mentioned this:

"This can be a problem due to serious acid production in the mold causing the curd to shrink and thus incorporating the cloth. Best solution is to wet the cloth in weak brine . This added salt should slow acid production a bit near the rind and solve this problem."

to Peter and he agreed that the sticking of cheesecloth to the curd could be solved by soaking the cloth in brine.
However, he insisted that curds pressed through the mesh of the cloth is due to too much pressure.

I had asked him this question because I had the same problem. The curd was pushed through the cheesecloth. Since I  have been using less pressure, it hasn' happened again. The cheeses are knitted and pressed just as good.

[DeejayDebi]

I have only had this happen once and I can sympathize ...

Do not rinse your liner and mold in water before using it. Only heat it with the whey. It's not absorbent but it will coat the liner with a thin film.

Start your pressing lighter for the first few minutes (I go about 10) and increase with each flip. The cheese is also cooling and is less soft as it begins to form a rind.

I don't have any problems with enough holes in the gouda molds just the edam molds and my drill fixed that.

[FRANCOIS]

I wish I had seen this earlier.  Sticking in molds is caused by lack of acid produciton on the surface which leads to knitting and toughening of the rind.  If the pH isn't low enough, it will stick.  The solution, as sailor pointed out, is frequent flipping.  This will only occur with some cheeses though.  Cheddar won't be an issue as the surface PH is already quite low.  This is the reason pre-soaking in whey works, it speeds the acifdification on the surface.  No offense, but Peter Dixon, as is often the case, is way off.  If pressure caused sticking, swiss would stick like crazy in kadovas.  If overacidication was the problem, per Ricki Carrol, cheddar would stick.

Good luck.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Oude - No disrespect taken and I really appreciate your input. I'm just trying to figure out how to get the most out of my Kadova molds.

Commercial guys have to be pressing at 4 PSI or much greater with Kadova molds, but they are generally pressing for much shorter times before the pH curve kicks in.

So here is the puzzle. As I said, I have made 4 cheeses with this mold. Two stuck. Two didn't

The two that worked perfectly were Goudas - washed curd with slower acid production. They were 5 pound wheels pressed at 4 PSI overnight.

The two that stuck were both Swiss types - An Emmental and a Baby Swiss. The Emmental is a thermophilic type. The Baby Swiss is a meso with washed curds. Both of these were also pressed overnight at 4 PSI.

So why would the Goudas work fine, but the Alpines stuck?

[Sailor Con Queso]

Sticking in molds is caused by lack of acid produciton on the surface which leads to knitting and toughening of the rind.

That sort of supports my observation of the problem. The pH of the raw Winter milk that I am using is running about 6.8. I am adding a little extra starter, but I am having inconsistent results. So the 2 Alpines that stuck did NOT hit expected pH targets. That means that acidification probably kicked in during the final pressing.

[FRANCOIS]

I was just going to suggest that perhaps you weren't hitting pH targets.  Also, if you press too hard and the rind hasn't formed sufficiently, that will cause seeping through the nets.  But it is really a symptom of the real problem.