Cheddar Cultures

[wharris]

Every Cheddar i have ever made, as used the following DVI Culture. (mine is from Dairy Connection:)
MA Culture
(MA 11)
Mesophilic

 For semi-soft and fresh cheeses:
Cheddar, Colby, Montery Jack, Feta, Chevre, etc...

Contains:

(LL) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis
(LLC) Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris 

My cheddar flavor is OK.  Not great. I'm sure the flavor has more to due to my process variables and shortcomings than the cultures.  Nevertheless I am thinking of branching out.  (Away from MA11.)  Anyone ever use, or think of using a Chr Hansen culture? (can we even do that?)
I was looking at the R-707 culture and perhaps a nonstarter "adjunct culture" like CR-210.

Why R-707?  I dunno.  Middle of the road from an acidification speed, and salt requirements.
Why CR-210? Absolutely no reason other than its first in the list of "Favor Control" adjunct cultures.

Anyone want to split an order up?

I'm just thinking out loud.

[Sailor Con Queso]

I use MM100 which is the MA11 + L. b diacetylactis. To me, the Cheddar turns out creamier and has a more complex flavor.

I recently read a blurb about adding a little thermophilic LH100 (L. lactis + L. helveticus) to enhance proteolysis (protein breakdown) during aging. Apparently Peter Dixon does this on a regular basis with several kinds of cheeses. I think Francois has a name for using a Meso/Thermo mix but it evades me at the moment.

...but I would be up for splitting cultures with you. Always willing to try new things.

[FarmerJd]

I was looking at the R-707 culture and perhaps a nonstarter "adjunct culture" like CR-210.

Can you elaborate on any distinctive's of these 2 cultures?  I might be in as well; I would love to experiment.

[MarkShelton]

How many ways were you looking to split up? I don't know what quantities or prices you had in mind, but I would like to try a different culture type to see how much difference would be made by changing the starter.

[wharris]

Here is the information pdf regarding the R-707.
I still need to check on price.  If the price is rediculous, I'm not buying.  But if costs are reasonable.  I may try this.

I will let you all know when/what I find.

I would love to get some feedback frfom Linuxboy on this.

[wharris]

So, that looks like what I want comes in 10 different packages of 50U each.  That is, 10 packages that will each acidify 500l of milk.
If I broke up the order from CHR Hansen,, I think it would make sense to break it up 10 ways.  I'm probably good for 2-3 packages.

Again, I'm still just thinking out loud.  I still need to see if a guy like me can even buy from them.

And I sill need to look at the "Flavor Control" cultures...

I will keep you all informed. (unless someone already knows the answer)

[wharris]

I think Francois has a name for using a Meso/Thermo mix but it evades me at the moment.

I've read the same thing, I *think* its referred to generically as a "heterofermative culture". (meso/thermo mix)

[wharris]

I have found R-704 for sale at the Fromex web site.  I cannot find the R-707.
Since it does not look like there are substantial differences (from my perspective) between the cultures. I will be looking into what I can find. (R-704).  I have inquired as to how much it costs and will report back when I find out.

But I have not found the Flavor Control adjunct culture. (CR-213.)  If anyone knows where I could purchase that, that would be great.


"The culture enhances the overall flavor intensity of cheese by accentuating all
important flavor notes. It enhances balanced, mellow, rounded and clean flavors
and suppresses unwanted flavors such as sour, bitter and flat."

"The culture is primarily applied in the production of cheeses where normally
mesophilic lactic acid bacteria are used. This culture is particularly used in
Cheddar, Continental cheeses (rindless cheese), low-fat cheese and cheese
containing vegetable fat."

[linuxboy]

I sent an e-mail asking for a quote, will let you know when they get back to me. Oh and Chymax M launched in Europe, but not the US, so still poor availability.

meso/thermo mix is called a stabilized mix or thermo stabilized mix. Yes, Peter Dixon is fond of them. A custom primarily meso mix with only one or a few specific LH strains (for flavor/proteolysis control) added to it isn't exactly like a stabilized mix, it's more like a meso with an adjunct. To draw a comparison, it's like adding an enzyme to aid with extraction when you macerate grapes (completely different chemistry, though), vs choosing between a rhone or bordeaux yeast for specific ester formation.

hetero vs homofermentive is different, it refers to the pathway used when metabolizing sugars. More simply, homofermentive follow the EMP pathway, where pyruvate is reduced to lactic acid, and heterfermentive can also produce other stuff, like CO2, diacetyl, etc.

[linuxboy]

CHR Hansen will only sell to you if you want to buy more than $500 per order and more than $3,000 per year. Also, definitively, Chymax-M is not available yet.

If you want  to get the 707 and 213, try

http://www.kelleysupply.com/default.aspx?page=item%20detail&itemcode=M391019
http://www.kelleysupply.com/default.aspx?page=item%20detail&itemcode=M391221

Do you want me to ask what cheddar culture they recommend?

[wharris]

Sure! I would love recommendations.

I have registered as a customer with them.  But, I'm not sure they will approve me. 

The cost is reasonable, at $70 for box of 10X50U of  R-707.  I'm in.
(that is $7/per package, or $7/500 liters of milk, or a $1.40 per batch for me.)

[linuxboy]

Okay, I will ask. They will sell to you directly, but only if you purchase in at least the quantities I posted above.  If not, the only two authorized US resellers are dairy connection and Kelley Supply. Dairy Connection could order the 707 and 213 for you if you ask, but I do not think they stock much CHR Hansen products. Kelley Supply keeps a lot of it on hand, though, and reasonable prices for smaller volumes.

[wharris]

I registered with Kelly.  If my application is accepted, I will probably purcase some of each.
If and when that happens, I will gladly divide it up here,  at cost.

[linuxboy]

If you need a cheap way to ship these all out, check out http://www.worldfulfillment.com/hartford/

Prepaid legal-size 2-day packs at $6 each. Also, for the 231 adjunct, it comes in a frozen carton, so not as convenient to repack as the 50U packs.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Kelly has an interesting product called Starter Distillates that I haven't seen anywhere else. It is obviously a diacetyl flavor enhancer, but I don't understand how or when this might be used..
_______________________

Starter Distillates
Natural Starter Distillate is a water-soluble, butter type flavor obtained by culturing skim milk based medium with special lactic cultures and subsequently steam distilling the cultured milk medium. Starter Distillate contains diacetyl and several other flavor compounds and creates a creamy butter flavor. Starter Distillate also comes in 2 strengths, 1X and 15X.