another go at camembert

[gemma.tyson]

Threw the second batch in the bin.
Smell was awful, couldn't make myself even try some.  They split and that was it.
Having enormous problems with whey retention.
Trying again, this time going to try occasional gentle stirring for 15 minutes to encourage seperation.
Making notes so far
Making notes
Used four litres of milk. 2 x 2litres of full cream milk from supermarket.
Brought milk to room temp than heated in sterilised stockpot to 31 degrees over half hour (maybe a little more).
Added 1ml calcium chloride dissolved in boiled water and mixed in up and down motion.
Rested 5 minutes
Added Flora Danica 1/2 sachet (Mad Millie) and 1/2 sachet Penicillium camemberti (Mad Millie).  I had these left from the last make and decided to use them.  Also added a little GEO, all dissolved in a little boiled water and once again mixed in gently with an up and down motion.
Covered and set aside for 70 minutes maintaining a constant 32 degrees.
Walked two labradors who were telling me it was walk time.
Added 1 ml vegetarian liquid rennet dissolved in 30 ml distilled water.
Flocullation time was 14 minutes - x 6 = 84 minutes
Cut curds into one inch squares and rested for 10 minutes.
Now gentle stirring - every 2 minutes for 15 minutes

[gemma.tyson]

after 10 minutes of gentle movement I have seperation.  hooray.
Camera batteries are flat, taking photos with mobile, have to work out how to download :0
Now for the ladeling

[gemma.tyson]

ladled with a draining spoon.  Encouraged way to drain before I placed it into the mold.
Much more controlled.  Still some excess but not as much as before.
The journey continues.
The fun part of turning them.

[Cheese Head]

Hi gemma, turning Cam's is fun, I remember my first couple of times ! FYI there's a Wiki: Turning Cheeses article.

Also, there's a How To upload your mobile pictures in the IT FAQ Board, have a fun journey!

[gemma.tyson]

Thanks John.
Pictures should hopefully download.
Camemberts are coming along nicely, still very wet though.  Have given them a pet tonight to try and encourage the rind to hold.  Two of the babies are fairly firm, two others still look like they're thinking about slipping.
Oh well.

[boothrf]

Hi Gemma,

Good luck with your latest batch of Camembert! The photos look promising.

I see you are using the same hoops as I use. They look very full. I find that my cheeses are very thick and heavy when I fill them that high, and this affects their ripening quite a lot. I'm going to fill mine and weigh them next time to limit the size to a maximum of 250g.

Also, your curd looks quite small and wet, smaller than the 1 inch cut? Maybe that is how supermarket milk looks. I use fresh milk and it gives a lovely firm curd. Did you use non homogenised milk? Hard to find, but Paul's have it in their Organic range. I believe homogenised milk does not make give as good a curd and this might be one of the causes of your high moisture?

Anyway, please keep us informed of your progress and keep posting photos. Us Aussie cheesemakers need to stick together and help each other out with our local experience!

[gemma.tyson]

Hi Bob
The batch I had to throw out was the organic milk, so this time I used normal supermarket milk with added calcium chloride.
The last few tries at camembert have given me a really solid curd which just does not drain.  This time I made the decision to stir very softly with my hand to seperate the curds and wey.  I do still have very wet and sticky camemberts.  Sigh.

[mtncheesemaker]

Hi Gemma;
How long do you drain the cheeses in the molds? How many times do you flip them during draining? Are you surface salting or brining? Do you let them air dry a bit after salting and keep any moisture wiped away?
Just trying to think of the variables that could be causing trouble.
I had trouble with this cheese when I started out but after changing a few things, I've gotten good results.
Pam

[gemma.tyson]

Hi Pam
I turned the camemberts multiple times, probably more than was recommended in the recipe.  I than left them to drain overnight in the baskets, as they were still quite wet, I left them in the baskets until I had a lunch break and removed them and salted them than.  I placed them on bamboo mats to continue draining.  I also sprinkled a little more salt on them the next day as they were still draining heavily and the skin looked like it might go on me.  I left them on my kitchen bench and have turned them 2-3 times a day, patting them to try and keep the skin healthy.
I have now placed them in the cheese fridge, 10degrees Celsius, and they still feel wet and sticky.  No mold has grown yet, am wondering if I should place them in the normal refrigerator   Don't know if the penicillum will start up in the colder temps.  Still turning them daily.
This batch has stayed intact which I am grateful for (so far).  My partner feels our recent change in weather may be a factor.  We have been going from beautiful spring weather to forecasts of hail and snow, cold winds and a very cold house again.
Was hoping to have these cheeses ready for a family party in two weeks

[mtncheesemaker]

Hi Gemma;
My guess is that the curds are retaining too much moisture.
These are a couple of possibilities that occur to me.
First, if I use calcium chloride, I add it just before adding the rennet. Not sure exactly why this would make a difference but I think it is the standard way to do it. (Also, I just sprinkle all the powdered cultures on the surface of the milk, allow them to rehydrate for a few minutes, then stir them in.)
Secondly, after I cut the curds for Camembert, into 1/2", I stir them gently for 2-3 minutes, then allow them to settle for 5-10 minutes before ladling into molds. Too much or too rough handling of the curds can cause them to "heal", forming a "skin" that prevents proper expulsion of the whey.
From your description, it seems that your cheeses are way too wet after draining. A little dampness is OK, and they will continue to leak some whey, which should be kept wiped up. Of course, during all of the draining and aging, they are elevated above any draining whey, so never allowed to sit in moisture.
Hope this helps; let me know what you think.
Pam

[mtncheesemaker]

Gemma;
Also try reducing your floc multiplier to 5 instead of 6. The higher the multiplier, the more moisture is retained.
Pam

[gemma.tyson]

Thanks Pam.
Am going to town today, so will pick up some more milk and try again.
Don't think these ones are going to do much.  Have put them in the fridge and will hopefully safe them for something :0.  Have to make some lasagna, so it may be cheese sauce.
I think the changes you suggest could work.  I made a Tomme last week and forgot to add the calcium chloride, it all worked fine. 
Will make some small batches and start with all of your suggestions but leave the calcium chloride out all together.  Am also going to look for some other moulds as I wonder if they are part of the problem.
Cheers, Gemma

[mtncheesemaker]

Could be. Cam molds have no bottom so drain well set on some cheese mats.
Good luck, keep us posted.
Pam

[boothrf]

Hi Gemma, I use the same moulds as yours and havn't had a problem with draining so I doubt the moulds are the problem. My best results were when I left the cut curd for around 2 hours in the whey, stirring gently every 30 minutes, before moulding. After moulding, I let them drain overnight, turning every 2 hours or so for the first 6 hours. I demould then brine them before leaving them out at room temp for around 24 hours. This step is important to let the cams "dry out" on the surface before placing them in the maturing container. I like them to get that almost shiny, dry look before maturing. Your thoughts on room temperature are good ones. I am sure you need some elevated temperatures (say 20 deg C plus) during the make, draining and drying to get good cheeses. If it is colder, then I would guess these steps will take longer.

Good luck and send some more photos.

PS I'm planning to make more cams this wekeend so will post the results next week.

[OzzieCheese]

Hi All,  I'm trying my 3rd batch today and am not confident of the recipe.  Bob your method uses a brining stage instead of salting. could you post your method please? I'm using the method from Tim smiths book today hoping for a better result.