Flocculation Multiplier for Cotswold

[Guiseppe]

Hi,

Just a quickie.  I am about to make a Cotswold, a Double Gloucester with chives and onions.
Unable to find a 'flocculation multiplier' for this cheese.
Hopefully somebody out there can assist, failing that I'll go for multiplier of about 3 since it is relatively similar to Cheddar, and hope for the best.

Guiseppe

[lazyeiger]

Guiseppe,

I used 3.5 here https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13741.0.html it seemed to work out OK!

Jon

[Guiseppe]

Lazyeiger,

Thanks for that, I'm actually going to try a slight variation just to see how it comes out. 
I can access onions without any problem but I can't get chives. 
However, I do have a huge sage bush in my garden so I'm going to try sage and onion instead of chive and onion. 
Can't see why it wouldn't work?

[Andrew Marshallsay]

I've used a multiplier of about 3x for my last Double Gloucester. Worked well. This is a bit of a favourite.
I haven't done the Cotswold but I can't see why the sage wouldn't work. I like your spirit of experimentation and I will look forward to hearing the result.

[Stinky]

The floc method doesn't really work for me, but here is Debi's outline for that sort of thing.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Stinky, What do you mean it doesn't work for you???

[awakephd]

Don't know if Stinky's experience is like mine, but I have to confess it doesn't really work for me either -- at least as long as I am using P&H milk. I get an obvious gelling at about the 3-5 minute mark no matter how little rennet I use -- and when I check at 3x or whatever multiplier, it is never even close to being ready. For a while I thought maybe I needed to count the flocc time not at the point when it just begins to gel (bowl stops spinning or moving easily), but when the bowl wouldn't move at all when nudged -- or rather, it will move a bit, but spring back to position. But determining that point was a very, very subjective judgment, dependent on exactly how hard I nudged the bowl. And it still didn't seem to give me results that were meaningful when multiplied by the factor.

When I finally had a chance to try some raw milk, it was a stunning difference. No gelling at the 3-5 minute mark ... or the 10 minute mark ... and then, suddenly, a clear change from free-floating to gelling. (The difference between this and what I get with the P&H milk was so great that for several minutes I was convinced the rennet wasn't going to work at all.) And the total time as calculated from the multiplier worked perfectly. Suddenly, the flocc method made sense!

Unfortunately, I very rarely have access to raw milk, so unless/until that happens again (or I get hold of some LTP non-homogenized), I have given up on flocc and just go by the time.

[Stinky]

Stinky, What do you mean it doesn't work for you???

Yeah, what awake said. The one time I tried and remembered to do it, it took 20 minutes to hit that point and then was done in another 20 minutes.

[OzzieCheese]

I must confess to having a simular issue - not as bad but consistently fast gelation with P&H milk locally - again not as bad but enough to make the floc. point a difficult thing to get consistent.  Until I changed to the Pasteurised only milk from Maleny -  Not that is helps the OS people apart from buy the best and freshest milk you can.  Find out how they treat the milk, Do they add different breeds to their milk? Some actually add milk from different processed batches trying to 'Standardise'.  Might cost a little more but the end result.  For example - today my milk with 3mls of rennet took 2 minutes longer than normal so my floc point went from 12.5 minutes to 14.5 and the difference was that last time it was milk from any other source - Holstein instead of Guernsey. but it didn't just slowly gel either as at 13 minutes the bowl was still free floating and at 14 but at 14.30 - poof ! Flocced.  So its not really something that you can really put a stop watch to the exact second.  It is cheese after all and handmade at that.  Every one is different - that's the joy of it.

-- Mal
   

[Spoons]

For example - today my milk with 3mls of rennet took 2 minutes longer than normal so my floc point went from 12.5 minutes to 14.5 and the difference was that last time it was milk from any other source - Holstein instead of Guernsey. but it didn't just slowly gel either as at 13 minutes the bowl was still free floating and at 14 but at 14.30 - poof ! Flocced. 

I get inconsistent floc expereriences too. Mine are different than yours though: I always use the same milk source. For one cheese, the bowl will spin freely, but 30 seconds later it will be a hard gel and the bowl will almost not budge, an obvious floc. Other times, the gel in between each 30-second span is so faint that I find myself second guessing for 1.5 to 2 minutes if it flocced or not.

[Guiseppe]

Just an update,
I made the Cotswold using raw goat milk and I used the 3.5 multiplier as suggested by Lazyeiger.
The recipe suggested a cutting time of 45 minutes but using the spinning bowl method I determined the flocculation time as 12.5 minutes.
3.5 X 12.5 minutes is 43 minutes and 45 seconds so it was as close as you can get.

Guiseppe

[awakephd]

At the risk of continuing to usurp Guiseppe's thread ... I must say that I am reassured to hear that others' experience with flocc is similar to mine!

Guiseppe, I look forward to updates on the progression of this cheese!

[Guiseppe]

awakephd - feel free to usurp all you like; it's a discussion forum after all.

The Cotswold with sage is progressing well, very nicely knit together, surface is now dry and just beginning to form a nice rind.  I'll be vacuum bagging it soon, well as soon as my new supply of bags arrive that is.  Anybody had to suffer the Greek postal system will understand the frustration.

I may even post some pictures of the cheese if I ever become less technologically impaired.