Problem with my first cheddar

[felku]

Like title says yesterday I tried my first cheddar. It was 4 gallons make. The problem I'm having is that I haven't been able to close the rind completely. It has been already 24 hours in the press. The last 6 hours I have been pressing with 432 pounds. I'm using the sturdy press (foldaway) and I have added more weight that was advised. I attach some photos of the current state of the cheese. Any advice in what to do?

[FRANCOIS]

If you press cheddar too hard you can actually inhibit ripening. Trust me, I've done it. You won't be able to close your rind now. Your pH was too low when you cheddared the curds.

[felku]

Thanks for the input.

[awakephd]

Yes, cheddar can be a challenge to get a good knit. Francois' comment is interesting -- did you measure pH of the make when it went into the press? Both of my last two cheddars got a little lower in pH than I wanted (around 5.15 or 5.2, instead of my target of 5.3-5.4) before milling and salting, but nonetheless they both came out with very nice rinds after pressing at a final weight of 420 lbs. This was in a mold that is just under 7" in diameter. Prior makes of cheddar, though, did not turn out quite as nicely as far as rind; at that time I couldn't measure the pH and I couldn't reach more than around 150 lbs.

One thing that I notice in your pictures is the form factor -- I don't know if it would help the knit, but I think you might want something with more height for the width. I'm guessing you used an 8" mold? As I said, I used a mold that was a bit less than 7" for a 4-gallon make, and got a reasonable form factor. Of course, you could stay with the 8" mold but go with 6 gallons in the next make.

[felku]

Yes, cheddar can be a challenge to get a good knit. Francois' comment is interesting -- did you measure pH of the make when it went into the press? Both of my last two cheddars got a little lower in pH than I wanted (around 5.15 or 5.2, instead of my target of 5.3-5.4) before milling and salting, but nonetheless they both came out with very nice rinds after pressing at a final weight of 420 lbs. This was in a mold that is just under 7" in diameter. Prior makes of cheddar, though, did not turn out quite as nicely as far as rind; at that time I couldn't measure the pH and I couldn't reach more than around 150 lbs.

One thing that I notice in your pictures is the form factor -- I don't know if it would help the knit, but I think you might want something with more height for the width. I'm guessing you used an 8" mold? As I said, I used a mold that was a bit less than 7" for a 4-gallon make, and got a reasonable form factor. Of course, you could stay with the 8" mold but go with 6 gallons in the next make.

Interesting your comments. I did notice I had some problems with PG like FRANCOIS mentioned but I it wasn't too bad. And yest my mold is 8" I bought the clear one from John at perfect cheese he adviced me it was too big and I was so desperate that I bought it before getting his email. Anyway at the end I added 480 lb still the rind didn't closed. You think a 6 gallon batch would be better? My stockpot is only 20qt but I'm waiting another from 10qt , maybe I can do 2 batch.  At first I tought about the 6 gallon make but I thought I would need more weight but if is not like that maybe I can do that in my next make.

[awakephd]

I wouldn't rush into a 6-gallon make, especially if you have to divide it into two pots. I've just put a 6-gallon Cantal -- a French sort-of cheddar -- into the press; I made it in two pots ... and even with a make as easy as this, it was a bit of a challenge. (Pictures here, if you're interested: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14700.msg112003.html#msg112003)

I'd recommend looking for something that would work better for your 4-gallon makes. A 6" or 6.5" mold should work well. You can even do what some people do (I'm not confessing, mind you) and "re-purpose" plastic containers originally meant for other uses -- look for containers made of HDPE, LDPE, or polypropylene (recycling numbers 2, 4, or 5). Clean thoroughly, of course, and drill holes, and voila! You have a mold.

[felku]

Thanks for the advice

[John@PC]

Felku, I did a Cantal a few weeks ago and had results similar to yours under the similar circumstances: 8" dia mold but with 5 gal. milk.  Dr. Andy is right about the form factor affecting consolidation.  I was anxious to do another cheese with the 8" mold but the 6" would have given closer to a 2/3 or probably a 1/1 ht. vs. dia.   As for your mold I would be glad to exchange your 8" with a 6" if that would be a better fit for you.  Note at these high pressing pressures if you "roll your own" mold make sure it is of sufficient thickness (I wouldn't go less than .100" wall on a 6 to 8" mold depending on plastic type) and stay away from brittle plastics (i.e. acrylics).  Kern is the plastic expert so maybe he'll weigh in.

[felku]

Felku, I did a Cantal a few weeks ago and had results similar to yours under the similar circumstances: 8" dia mold but with 5 gal. milk.  Dr. Andy is right about the form factor affecting consolidation.  I was anxious to do another cheese with the 8" mold but the 6" would have given closer to a 2/3 or probably a 1/1 ht. vs. dia.   As for your mold I would be glad to exchange your 8" with a 6" if that would be a better fit for you.  Note at these high pressing pressures if you "roll your own" mold make sure it is of sufficient thickness (I wouldn't go less than .100" wall on a 6 to 8" mold depending on plastic type) and stay away from brittle plastics (i.e. acrylics).  Kern is the plastic expert so maybe he'll weigh in.

Thanks for the input John. I prefer to keep this mold for future big makes and buy the 6" from you since I liked the 8" one.  By the way when you get the chance read my last email. 

[Kern]

I agree with the form factor comments from Dr. Awake.  Another point:  The same weight on a 8 inch mold as on an 6 inch mold with result in a pressure reduction equal to the ratio of the squares of their diameters - 36 to 64 in this case.  I did not see a mention of temperature in any of the comments.  The cheddaring part of the process along with the initial pressing should take place around 95F according to Caldwell and others.  The curds will knit better at this temperature.  Perhaps the combination of temperatures too low for the pressure used were not sufficient to enable the cheese to "flow" to fit the mold.   

I pressed a 6-gallon batch of Caerphilly in one of John's 8 inch molds and ended up with a cheese a little under 4 inches thick coming out of the press.  In the same mold a 4-gallon batch would be about 2.75 inches think.  I'm fine with a Caerphilly this thick as it is rather short aged.  The problem with a cheddar is that it is long aged and you'll get a lot of rind when the aspect ratio is 8 inches divided by 2.75.  A high aspect ratio like this means that the surface area to volume ratio is high.  As a final note on this I use a 6 inch mold for pressed 4-gallon batches and an 8 inch mold for 6-gallon batches (and sometimes a 7 inch basket-type mold).

Unfortunately, 7-inch PC pipe is impossible to find as it does not appear to be a stock item.  I'd like to have such a diameter in a straight sided open bottom mold so I am going to make one out of fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin.  I'll post something on this when completed.  Stay tuned. 

[felku]

I agree with the form factor comments from Dr. Awake.  Another point:  The same weight on a 8 inch mold as on an 6 inch mold with result in a pressure reduction equal to the ratio of the squares of their diameters - 36 to 64 in this case.  I did not see a mention of temperature in any of the comments.  The cheddaring part of the process along with the initial pressing should take place around 95F according to Caldwell and others.  The curds will knit better at this temperature.  Perhaps the combination of temperatures too low for the pressure used were not sufficient to enable the cheese to "flow" to fit the mold.   

I pressed a 6-gallon batch of Caerphilly in one of John's 8 inch molds and ended up with a cheese a little under 4 inches thick coming out of the press.  In the same mold a 4-gallon batch would be about 2.75 inches think.  I'm fine with a Caerphilly this thick as it is rather short aged.  The problem with a cheddar is that it is long aged and you'll get a lot of rind when the aspect ratio is 8 inches divided by 2.75.  A high aspect ratio like this means that the surface area to volume ratio is high.  As a final note on this I use a 6 inch mold for pressed 4-gallon batches and an 8 inch mold for 6-gallon batches (and sometimes a 7 inch basket-type mold).

Unfortunately, 7-inch PC pipe is impossible to find as it does not appear to be a stock item.  I'd like to have such a diameter in a straight sided open bottom mold so I am going to make one out of fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin.  I'll post something on this when completed.  Stay tuned. 

Thanks for this excellent post. Regarding temperature, this is not  a problem where I live. Here normally the temp is around 90 F and in a very hot day on summer can be around 100 F.

[awakephd]

Kern, I look forward to seeing the results of your fiberglass mold. (Hmm, I wonder where you'll get the epoxy from ... ? )