Feta cheese not setting

[Samo]

Hi

I'm new to cheese making and have had two goes at feta cheese, as we eat a lot of it and the recipe seems to be easy.

On both attempts the taste has been very good but the texture was completely wrong... after putting in the rennet and leaving it overnight it was quite jelly-like and the "cubes" completely dissapeared when I strained it so it ended up more like a cream cheese.

Quite eatable but not right!

What could I be doing wrong?

Not enough rennet?
Not enough calcium chloride?
Not leaving it long enough to set?
Something else I don't know about?

I use live yogurt for the culture and vegetarian rennet.

Appreciate any pointers you can give.

Thanks

Samo

[Fritz]

Hi Samo, welcome to the cheese forum!
I'm sure we can help, you but we need more info. Please post your recipe, what kind of milk you used and step by step process. We will have you in feta heaven shortly.

Thanks
F

[Samo]

Hi,
This is my recipe

- 2 litres goats milk
- 10 drops of vegetarian rennet, diluted in about a quarter of a cup of cooled boiled water
- quarter of a teaspoon of 34% cacium chloride in a quarter of a cup of cooled boiled water.
- 1 tbsp live yogurt

----
Warm the milk to approx 85 degrees F and stir in the calcium chloride whilst it's heating. Add the yogurt then leave for an hour.
Add the rennet and gently mix with an up and down motion.
Leave to stand overnight,
The next morning cut into 1/2 inch cubes and gently still on and off for 20 minutes, then pour into the muslim to strain.

.... and that's about it. At that point there's no structure at all ithe cheese.

I should say that my thermometer only starts at 100 degrees so I estimated 85, but I'm not sure how important that is.

Does that help?

Samo

[Fritz]

Well... Time to treat yourself to a decent cheese thermometer.. The digital ones that hang or clip to the side of the pot are best... Because yes, temperature is important.

Was your goat milk pasteurized? Fat content ?

I can honestly say I haven't made feta using yogurt or have ever used vegetable rennet. I've heard vegetable rennet does not work as well as the liquid animal rennet. I looked up quite a few feta recipes and they say it's possible to use yogurt, so it's probably a technique issue. I use a standard MA 4001 or Meso aromatic B. Flora Dancia or feta A or B are also good options. I also mix my goat milk with cow milk as I don't like my feta too strong and "goaty" tasting.

I assume you had a clean break and your curds set up with some form of structure and substance. You may have broken your curds by stiring too much... The curds are very soft and have to handle gently with say a rubber spatula vs a metal spoon. Once the curds are cut (try a larger curd cut ..say 1 inch) , let them sit for 10-15 min then stir very gently. Your temperature can safely be up to 90* - 32C from the start. that should firm up your curds a bit better. Try not to "pour" your curds but rather gently "ladle" them into your muslin cloth.

Once drained, they should now have substance to handle them and fill your basket moulds. Luckily 2 ltr milk is not too much to experiment and loose much things go wrong... I hope others that have made feta with yogurt will chime in...Once you figure it out on your next batch, let us know how it goes... Hope my tips helped, good luck!

F

[Bernardsmith]

Daft question perhaps but was your rennet made for junket or for cheese making? Some kinds of rennet do not have sufficient chymosin to properly coagulate milk for cheese. I ask because most rennet wouldn't need you to allow the milk to set overnight but only perhaps for more or less 60 minutes.

[Gregore]

Sounds like a great recipe to make a soft curd cheese , minus the stirring , letting curds sit all night then stirring or ladeling  into molds is how I would make a soft curd cheese .

   if this is store bought yogurt it will be hard to make decent cheese from it, With out creating a starter of your own from it
If it is made from yogurt starter  powder then there is some hope with a modified recipe ....... I do not like the idea of  letting it sit for the whole night with  rennet then stirring .

Try adding a cup of very sharp yogurt to a gallon of  90 degree milk and letting it sit for 3 or so hrs then add rennet let sit till clean break , then  stir at same temp for 20 minutes then bag it and let drain until it tastes sharp , this could take 24 hrs or more depending on your yogurt . Then brine it .

This is the issue with cultures like yogurt or kefir with out a ph meter it is hard to give you exact times for things  , with cultures you buy to make cheese they are a known strength so it is easy to give you an exact recipe

[Samo]

Thanks guys for the response.

Firstly, yes it is cheers makers rennet. I got it online from a place that specialise in cheese making.

The milk is Fresh Pasteurised Homogenised Whole Goats' Milk that says it's 10% fat.

The recipe I got from the internet (can't remember which site) said to leave it overnight. That timing isn't related to the vegetable rennet.

I'm not really sure what is meant by a clean break. I assume it means that if I gently tilt the bowl the curds cleans come away from the side of the bowel in one piece. Is that right?

It does end up as a fairly solid jellylike piece which I can cut with a rubber spatula, so maybe it is just that I'm being a bit too heavy handed.

I had read the that the amount you gently stir the cube determines the final "density" of the cheese. Is that right?

The next time I'll try being extra super gentle with the curds and see what happens. I did make a point of only getting 2 litres until I've worked out how to do it.

What would happen if I doubled the rennet?

Btw the unset cheese is delicious.

Thanks,

Samo

[Samo]

Hi Gregor,

You posted whilst I was typing my previous answer.

Good point about the yogurt. I think I'll send off for some propr culture for my next attempt.

Samo

[Fritz]

You've got the clean break right, Samo.. And yes, getting cultures instead of yogurt will make a much more predictable cheese. Just FYI ... If you visit cheesemaking retail sites, many have free cheesemaking e-books for download. New England 'cheesemaking.com' for example, cultures for health has one,  and galvin Webber (little green cheese) has one ... Probably many more. A good cheese book is invaluable if you feel you want to stick with the hobby ... And then ... These is always us to help if you need us

F

[Bernardsmith]

Still very much a novice cheese maker but I have been using kefir made from my kefir grains to culture feta-type cheeses and cheddar cheeses and mozzarella and if the recipe I have suggests a pH I have not found problems achieving such targets. That said, isn't feta a thermophilic cheese? If so, wouldn't the cultures in yogurt be quite appropriate? But I wonder if the recipe Samo used should have asked for the uncut coagulated milk to be left overnight or for the curds to be strained overnight? 

[Gregore]

I have not made this recipe , but I looked it over and it seems to be  about right and it explains clean break .

http://www.cheesemaking.com/Feta.html

[Samo]

Hi

Thanks for all the comments.

From what you've said, I'm not doing anything particulay wrongly, but (a) I should use a "proper" culture rather than relying on live yogourt, and (b) I need to be a bit more gentle when straing the whey.

Yes?

I'd also asked, what would be the result of increasing the amount of rennet? Anyone?

Thanks

Samo

[Fritz]

That is mostly correct, Samo...

I say "mostly" because of the many variables. Cheesemaking is not exact math or physics, black or white...its cheesemaking. Although temperatures and measurements need to be respected... Like all cooking and baking, its a technique, taste, feel, touch and smell thing. The exact recipe itself, I feel, is actually secondary to technique for cheesemaking success. There are few definitive values and even less guarantees.
Just start by making a cheese ...document it well, test it and modify it as needed and keep making the same cheese until its perfect (to you). Then, move on to your next target cheese. That is the common consensus around here to how to become a better cheesemaker. Read Read Read learn learn learn and have fun. Build and gather up your tools and resources along the way.

Remember, most mistakes whilst cheesemaking are actually still very edible 

Regarding the rennet: Depends on the milk type, temperature, acidity and rennet type (see what I mean about variables)... but usually your cheese will taste bitter if you use too much rennet. Follow good recipes first and adjust as needed.

Good luck my friend
F

[Gregore]

If you get floculation in about 15 minutes plus or minus 5 minutes you are in the ball park for the correct amount of rennet and added a lot more with not produce any advantages and with have a few disadvantages like rubbery curds and as already suggested , bitterness .

Also keep in mind that if the milk as allowed to get a hair more acidic after adding the culture you will get a firmer curd . 
If using DVI cultures and the recipe calls for 1 hr before rennet , and you find this leads to soft curd even with the correct amount of calcium chloride then next time try try an extra 15 or so minutes before adding rennet , if that makes no difference then possibly a hair more calcium chloride .  Or try another milk , all milks are not equal , and you might find that is the first thing to try . Some makers here have found some  brands of milks just don't work well and other are fantastic.

Can any one suggest a good milk In Essex England ?

[valley ranch]

Quote:
I'm not really sure what is meant by a clean break. I assume it means that if I gently tilt the bowl the curds cleans come away from the side of the bowel in one piece. Is that right?

Samo, I haven't read every post, Let's see if I can describe a: Clean Break

After the rennet has been added and the curd is allowed to set. If a knife is put into the curd, let's say 3/4", and the knife is moved to the side, the curd should come away and the curd should split cleanly, Not like it has been put into Madzoon {yogurt}. Something like Gello..

Some people use their finger, sticking their finger into the curd and when lifting the curd with the finger the crud breaks or splits so that the finger is fairly clean again not having soft clump like yogurt on the finger.

Hope that helps, others can give a description that might be closer. There are many cheese making videos that show the testing for CLEAN BREAK.