Stupid question of the day

[teegr]

Okay folks I am the poster child of why a person should never answer the door while measuring a culture. Am I wasting my time the next few days letting this mess drain or should I start afresh in the morning?

It just hit me that I probably added half the amount of culture to a english style coulommiers, Flora Danica/min rennet/NO mold which is why I chose this board rather than other.  Why it didn't hit me earlier when it took 2 hrs longer to get a clean break...but of course it didn't occur to me that I might have made a mistake till bedtime.   It didn't help my enthusiasm when on the flip all went south...and west...and...well you get the picture. 
I sure hate the idea of messing with it all if there is just no way it is gonna even come close to working.  *note to self...don't make 2 types of cheese AND let the neighbor know your awake to answer the blasted doorbell*

[Cheese Head]

teegr, great-cute post!

On your problem, all is not lost! I'd keep on going. So you added half the amount of culture and took excessive time to get a clean break and your curds in the draining molds are a mess. A key parameter in coagulation is pH so it's understandable that it took longer to gel as slower pH drop with less starter culture. As the curds continue to acidify they should further drain whet and solidify and you get a nice looking cheese.

Not sure what you meant by "min rennet/NO mold".

Good luck!

[teegr]

Thanks John,  maybe I'll get something out of the mess in the kitchen after all.  Maybe I can send it home with my adult son to his roommate...they will eat just about anything.  I'll just tell them it is a RUSTIC presentation if it can be moved at all off the plastic mat.  LOL!  I was being so good and writing down exactly what I added and when...trouble is after writing down and then beginning to measure the starter...the doorbell rang. Then I refreshed my mind from the original 1/2 gal recipe rather than from the record sheet...and well I flubbed up.

My recipe was in my mind a low rennet recipe but perhaps I am wrong. I searched for coulommiers in form and it indicated it was in this board which is for no-little rennet . First time I have used liquid rennet and it was 3gtts/for 1/2 gallon. However I made 1 gal...and used a new liquid dbl strength (plus??) organic rennet...soooo perhaps I didn't even do that right as I used barely 3 gtts/4tbls h2o and added ALMOST all of it.   This recipe has ONLY flora Danica starter while as the french one has white mold added.  Truth is I was confused by the label of the mold package and my book...so I decided to just make this one.  (book has in diff places that one must rehydrate mold (which I didn't do in time to add it to what I was doing)...but it also states may add directly to milk)  I suppose it is obvious to most folks...but I wasn't clear on that item so went this way with NO mold till I wrapped my mind around it.     I've never added intentional mold to cheese before...so this is a bit of a learning experience.

After the splattering mess I made late last night flipping these babies I had to basically repack the molds and try to press it down good so it didn't look like someone threw loose barely formed curd from a distance of a few feet into the molds.  HAHA! 

[mtncheesemaker]

Hi Teegr;
How long did it take you to get a clean break? Or, did you ever?
I read the recipe this AM for the Coulummier in Ricki's book; I've never made that but I did try to make a similar thing, Chaource a few months ago.
After panicing when I didn't get a clean break, I read here to let it ripen for up to 24 hours for these primarily lactic coagulated cheeses. Even then, I had to pre-drain in hanging cheesecloth for a long time before I could even pretend to put the curds in molds.
There is a lot of discussion on the forum that helped me to understand this process. I think some have molds, some don't, so you just age them differently.
That's my 2 cents, hope it helps a little.
Pam

[iratherfly]

Wait, I am confused, what cheese were you trying to make?
If it's lactic (as this board suggests) than obviously you need to wait overnight; some cheeses even more. If you did it without clean break you may still get a decent cheese but a smaller yield. Just let it drain. The lactic activity will continue during drainage and the curd will eventually knot, even if it takes a day.

[teegr]

Hi Pam, well funny you mentioned Riki Carrols book...cause that was the exact recipe for English coulummniers that I used...but doubled it.  It took 2 hrs (instead of the 45 mins recipe said) to get a clean break at 90 temp.  Or lets say it took me that long to decide it was a clean enough break...for it wasn't as clean as I've had with say hard cheese.  This recipe indicated checking for a clean break...so I did.  I might also mention that I did NOT add any CaCL to this...but am wondering if maybe I should have.  I made 2 molded ones.  Should have used a soft cheese mold rather than hard cheese mold...that is for sure!!  But I had 2 of these molds vs 1 of the soft cheese...so I threw caution to the wind.  Difference is the amt of drainage holes is much greater than my hard cheese ones.  Curds were whey logged for a really long time...I think I'll take advice and predrain those next time cause it is a sloppy mess to turn these the first time.

iratherfly:  I made alot of lactic type cheese long before I even knew what it was called...LOL.  I DO let them (lactic) sit/(ripen?) for about 12-14 hrs in winter...I don't bother with a clean break with those, I just wait till it looks ready...just scoop into butter muslin, hang at room temp and it then takes another 12-16hr.  IF it is taking too long I will hang out in unheated pantry overnight and then salt and cup it up.  However this particular recipe is in the chapter for bacteria -mold ripened cheese in the aforementioned book...but in the forum...a search for the word coulommiers showed this particular board if I read it right...because it was #1 starter and #2 no-little rennet category. 

ANYWAYS back to the problem...very messy cheeses after turn...and stupid mistake with culture...I was dreading the 2nd flip after last nights mess.  Did some reading and saw in techniques on site that one should use a little knife or such to release the cheese from plastic mats BEFORE trying to flip.  DUH!  why didn't I think about that?  OR better yet...WHY didn't my book that I read cover to cover at least 10 times in the past mention that little trick?  Oh well...ya stop learning and your dead I guess.  2nd flip...MUCH better after using my little off-set icing spatula to release the sticky cheese from mat; I am hopeful that I haven't completely ruined this.  Feeling more hopeful with the encouragement.  THANK YOU.  At least my large batch of fromage blanc I made just before the coulommiers is finished and molded and ready for my son and his super bowl party.  Hopefully the questionable results with this "flippin" cheese will turn out well enough for Sunday as well. Now all I have to do is make the pimento cheese dip.  Keeping fingers crossed.

[DeejayDebi]

Hang in there teegr you'll get some form of cheese! Who knows maybe you invented a new one? I don't know why but of several books I hve read none mention pre draining the curds in cloth. That would make life SOOOO much easier - 3 words that's all it takes. Sheesh!

[teegr]

Just an update on my disaster...I managed to get 2 "cobbled together" disks and wrapped in cheese wrap.  It is a very tasty cheese...but not at all what I would have expected as far as texture (I expected a smooth block).  Since the flipping really didn't work well...I'd say that this is similar to a soft crumbled blue cheese in texture.  I just added it to some salad and stuffed it into some pastrami.  It melts...so it would be good for tacos and such too.

IF not for ya'll I'd have probably accepted defeat and thrown it away and started again.  I'm aging one to see what happens but expect with such a loose structure it will have to be eaten quite fresh.  Again,  THANKS folks.  It turned out to be a usable product if not one that I expected.  LOL!

I will try the hint of predraining it before molding.  I'm not sure if the fact I didn't add any CaCL to this contributed to problem.