Aging Raw Milk Cheeses & Discussion On US Law's On Selling & Stabilized/Frozen Manufactured Cheese

[MarkShelton]

I feel like I've been around long enough that I should know the answer already, but since I've only recently had access to raw milk, I haven't really thought about it before, so...

I made a batch of reblochons this weekend from raw milk, and I want to age them 60 days so that they are safe. However, this type of cheese can be ripe from 4 - 12 weeks. I don't really want to risk eating them if they may be harboring harmful bacteria, but I also don't want to throw them out if they have gotten far too ripe.

Can I ripen to 45 days or so at its ripening temperature at ~56 deg F then transfer to my regular fridge at 40 deg F for the remainder of the 60 days? I assume that this will effectively stop, or at least greatly slow, the ripening, so they won't go past their peak, and it will allow for the cheese to wait out its 60 day internment. Is this ok?

[BigCheese]

I can't answer that, but I strongly advise that you ask the farmer you are getting from if you could come one day and watch the milking. I would assume that is he is open and operating, his milk is pretty safe. Here in CA the milk is tested every week. If and when you see it is safe, you can ignore the 60 days. This is my opinion of course.

I drink raw milk and eat raw yogurt literally every day.

As I type this I am eating some 4 day old Gouda and finding it quite good

[iratherfly]

Nitai, the milk may be tested and is safe for drinking, but bacteria and pathogens can grow exponentially in cheese - far beyond the levels of drinking milk. (In fact, the cheese is so great at it that we inoculate bacteria into it, right?)

The waiting time makes is safe because it waits beyond a point where all dangerous pathogens we know pretty much die off from starvation, competition with other bacteria or due to high acidity levels. It's only the anzymatic activity that keeps working on the fats and proteins at that point in the paste and the rind bacteria that keeps working on the outside. Listeria, e.Coli and Salmonela are gone. That being said, testing the cheese would make sense (most of that stuff is dead well before 60 days and if I remember correctly, if the cheese is at pH5.4 than it would be impossible for these pathogens to survive it).

If the milk is of good quality and both the fabrication and aging are done in sanitary conditions than these should be no reason to fear the cheese; after all half the cheese in Europe is young and raw and I don't see the French and Italian exactly drop dead. That being said, you can slow down the aging of the cheese when you feel that it is getting close by wrapping it and putting it in lower temperature such as 45F for long time

[BigCheese]

Good to know. Thank you. I suppose if I mysteriously disappear from this forum all of a sudden everyone will know what happened to me 

[iratherfly]

Haha... it's not that bad. Most of this milk is safe, especially at the hands of people who understand milk, cheese, contamination, bacteria and refrigeration. there are far more cases of Salmonella in spinach or E.coli in hamburgers that there is in milk. Listeria however is a more serious problem. It is downright dangerous and is a very stubborn bacteria that can stand up to cleaners, sanitizers and in some cases even 60 days of aging. Still, where raw milk is allowed and supervised, there is frequent testing and inspections.

[FRANCOIS]

I feel like I've been around long enough that I should know the answer already, but since I've only recently had access to raw milk, I haven't really thought about it before, so...

I made a batch of reblochons this weekend from raw milk, and I want to age them 60 days so that they are safe. However, this type of cheese can be ripe from 4 - 12 weeks. I don't really want to risk eating them if they may be harboring harmful bacteria, but I also don't want to throw them out if they have gotten far too ripe.

Can I ripen to 45 days or so at its ripening temperature at ~56 deg F then transfer to my regular fridge at 40 deg F for the remainder of the 60 days? I assume that this will effectively stop, or at least greatly slow, the ripening, so they won't go past their peak, and it will allow for the cheese to wait out its 60 day internment. Is this ok?

Absolutely.  In fact you can get them going for 2 weeks then wrap them in put them in the fridge.  They will continue to ripen and the yeast will grow under those conditions. 

[Sailor Con Queso]

Francois, Will aging at 40F count towards the 60 day rule when selling cheeses commercially?

[linuxboy]

Francois, Will aging at 40F count towards the 60 day rule when selling cheeses commercially?

It's 60 days and not less than 35 F. Ref is CFR 21, Chap 1, sub B, 133.124

[BigCheese]

It's 60 days and not less than 35 F. Ref is CFR 21, Chap 1, sub B, 133.124

How do you people know this stuff?  But I am glad you do!

[linuxboy]

It's 60 days and not less than 35 F. Ref is CFR 21, Chap 1, sub B, 133.124

How do you people know this stuff?  But I am glad you do!

LOL. Nitai, I'm an enrolled agent. You should hear me quote tax law... It's scary stuff. My wife has a joke about me and accounting friends when we start talking and joking around. She says when we start talking, to her it sounds like this:

Friend: Two men were doing an audit and in walks a red dog with form 10-qwerty.
Me: A red dog!!! I can't believe it wasn't a blue dog with form 15-zippidy!! AHAHAHAHAHA.

She's a patient woman .

[Sailor Con Queso]

I understand patient women. It's a darn good thing I married one too.

What is CFR? I am mentally and physically stockpiling regs to battle (aka - educate) my state milk safety inspector.

So... I could actually make Neufchatel (example) and store it for 60 days at 35F and be legal? I would use pasteurized anyway, but I don't want to have to re-pasteurize on location.

[linuxboy]

CFR is the code of federal regulations. When going commercial, it's a worthwhile read through title 21 and the federal PMO and the state actual regs. Regulators appreciate when you speak their language in my experience.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/index.html

FDA is title 21, cheese is part 133

http://frwebgate3.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=yVA36k/1/1/0&WAISaction=retrieve

Neufchatel must be pasteurized to be called neufchatel. However, you could make "soft ripened cheese" in accordance with Sec. 133.182 

Sec. 133.162  Neufchatel cheese.

    (a) Description. (1) Neufchatel cheese is the soft uncured cheese
prepared by the procedure set forth in paragraph (a)(2) of this section
or by any other procedure which produces a finished cheese having the
same physical and chemical properties. The milkfat content is not less
than 20 percent but less than 33 percent by weight of the finished food
and the maximum moisture content is 65 percent by weight, as determined
by the methods described in Sec. 133.5. The dairy ingredients used are
pasteurized.
    (2) One or more of the dairy ingredients specified in paragraph
(b)(1) of this section is subjected to the action of a harmless lactic
acid-producing bacterial culture, with or without one or more of the
clotting enzymes specified in paragraph (b)(2) of this section. The
mixture is held until the dairy ingredients coagulate. The coagulated
mass may be warmed and stirred and it is drained. The moisture content
may be adjusted with one of the optional ingredients in paragraph
(b)(3)(ii) of this section. The curd may be pressed, chilled, worked,
and heated until it becomes fluid. It may then be homogenized or
otherwise mixed. One or more of the dairy ingredients specified in
paragraph (b)(1) of this section or the other optional ingredients
specified in paragraph (b)(3) of this section may be added during the
procedure.
    (b) Optional ingredients. The following safe and suitable
ingredients may be used:
    (1) Dairy ingredients. Milk, nonfat milk, or cream, as defined in
Sec. 133.3.
    (2) Clotting enzymes. Rennet and/or other clotting enzymes of
animal, plant, or microbial origin.
    (3) Other optional ingredients. (i) Salt.
    (ii) Cheese whey, concentrated cheese whey, dried cheese whey, or
reconstituted cheese whey prepared by addition of water to concentrated
cheese whey or dried cheese whey.
    (iii) Stabilizers, in a total amount not to exceed 0.5 percent of
the weight of the finished food, with or without the addition of dioctyl
sodium sulfosuccinate in a maximum amount of 0.5 percent of the weight
of the stabilizer(s) used.
    (c) Nomenclature. The name of the food is ``neufchatel cheese''.
    (d) Label declaration. Each of the ingredients used in the food
shall be declared on the label as required by the applicable sections of
parts 101 and 130 of this chapter, except that:
    (1) Enzymes of animal, plant, or microbial origin may be declared as
``enzymes''; and
    (2) The dairy ingredients may be declared, in descending order of
predominance, by use of the terms ``milkfat

[[Page 372]]

and nonfat milk'' or ``nonfat milk and milkfat'', as appropriate.

[54 FR 32057, Aug. 4, 1989, as amended at 58 FR 2894, Jan. 6, 1993]

[Sailor Con Queso]

Me: A red dog!!! I can't believe it wasn't a blue dog with form 15-zippidy!! AHAHAHAHAHA



The Neuf was just an example. I would use pasteurized milk and holding for 60+ to get around repasteurizing.

Really interesting. I've got some homework to do before Friday. That's when I have my next meeting with our Milk Safety Inspector. He is reviewing my site plans and operating procedures. If he likes what he sees, he is going to issue a "provisional" cheesemaking license.

[MarkShelton]

Thanks LB. I think I heard or read that somewhere before, but I wasn't sure.

At around 40 deg F in my fridge it'll nearly stop the ripening, right? I'm concerned about over-ripening letting it age that long. Bringing down the temperature should help that, right? It's something I want to try with my cams also. My last batch came out better, not nearly as runny, but still tasted and smelled too much of ammonia for my liking.

Is there anything else I should be concerned about with this process?

[linuxboy]

Cams and any bloomy rind cheeses are special. The mold growth cycle goes like this: it will colonize, then it will dig its hyphae (like roots) down into the cheese, and then will form the more visible mycelium on top. By the time that has happened, those roots are in, and so long as there's food, the mold will keep releasing enzymes from the hyphae and eating and producing spores, and generally surviving. When you put it in the fridge, all that slows down. But... there are enzymes in the body already. And there's tons and tons of little hyphae releasing more enzymes.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that it would continue to age even at 35F. Albeit slowly, but once you get that good growth everywhere, that moldy rind will keep turning the insides into goo. It's a whole different animal than a continental hard cheese.

With cam, if you want to slow down the ripening significantly, you have to fridge it early on, like 14 days, when you get a healthy bloom everywhere. There's this custom cam that Harve Mons developed for whole foods. Supposed to have a traditional taste, non stabilized, but to be cheap it has to come by boat, not air. So to prevent spoilage, it stays for 2 weeks at the cheese plant, and then wrapped, packaged, and shipped in refrigerated containers. They store it cold, and even then it's hard to keep it past 90 days. That's just the nature of the mold. I tried that cam recently, and it's actually not bad, even maturation and smooth paste, but underripe at ~50 days. In another 15-20 days at 50F, it would have been ideal.

That's one of the secrets to a good cam; remember that it ages completely differently from other cheeses because of that bloomy rind. Work with the understanding of the aging process to get the paste and quality you want.