Rennet - Recommendations > Discussion On Types

[tnsven]

Does this creep anyone else out or is it just me? 

[linuxboy]

This is one of those ways in which I've learned to love the bomb. Modern medicine wouldn't be possible without 1)vat fermentation and compound concentration, and 2) DNA splicing to create complex organic compounds. Even mass penicillin production wouldn't have happened without the first.

[Gina]

I'm not necessarily embracing it all, but actually I find it quite interesting. For years people kept saying 'science will find a way' to feed the growing masses, and now many arent liking what 'they' are finding.

Last night I was reading an interesting comparison regarding the relative acceptance of GM rennet compared to acceptance of other GM products. It's been around for decades and IIRC was the first GM product approved 20 years ago by the FDA. I've recently read that 90 to 95% of commercial cheeses are already being made with GM rennet. I'd guess most people dont know (or care). I sure didnt till recently.

Modern medicine is a good comparison. From another angle, there are far too many medications taken by too many people for too many ailments, but I sure wouldnt want to do away with everything. Hopefully someday the pendulum will settle someplace in a moderate center but for now it's a matter of individuals educating themselves about what they put into their bodies and making up their own minds.

Unfortunately it's sometimes difficult or impossible to uncover important details. Even TheCheesemaker.com makes one follow 'the small print' to find the separate fact sheet to find the actual name of the product they are selling. They use the more generic title '100% chymosin' instead of 'Chy-max Extra'. And from there, you'd still have to do another search to find that it is a GM product.

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That said (thanks for the interesting discussion), going back to the original thread question: 

I'll be needing to order some more rennet soon. Does anyone have any recommendations for a choice of rennet between dry or liquid calf, or the 100% chymosin (chymax extra)?

Thanks.

[Alex]

I can only repeat my mantra: I'm using MAXIREN 600, 1 drop/1 liter milk (manufacturer's recommendation). I buy it in 20-30 cc bottles with a 12 months shelf life. The "oldest" cheese I've tasted was an almost 2 years old Gruyere without any weird taste.
I am running an experiment testing shelf life. I have a bottle with exp date August 2009. It should be about 2 years old. I've increased the dosage by 20-30% and it gives a good coagulation and no bitterness at all.

[linuxboy]

That's a good rennet, too Alex. It's FPC from GM kluyveromyces. Should not cause bitterness and be very close to animal rennet.

Gina, the best rennet is animal, followed by second gen FPC (not available in the US yet), followed by first generation FPC, followed by microbial from m. miehei. The common first-gen FPCs are Chymax and Maxiren. In the Chymax line, they're all the same, just different concentrations. I personally prefer liquid to powdered.

I'm not embracing it all, but I have no issues with using GM to modify microbes to produce specific products, then purifying and concentrating the products. It's not like GM seeds.

[Boofer]

...veg rennet can increase bitterness over time. Also, that calf rennet makes a better curd than veg. Is this still the current thinking?

Is this true?

I have been using veg rennet tablets from the beginning. Are bitterness and curd formation a problem with veg rennet?

Here's the description of what I'm using:

"These tablets contain no animal products, are gluten free and Non-GMO. Each tablet is scored into 4 segements for ease of use.

INGREDIENTS: Microbial coagulant (Mucur Pussillus and/or Mucur Miehei), Cellulose Microcristaline and Sodium Chloride USP"

-Boofer-

[Gina]

I ended up ordering some animal rennet. I would have preferred the liquid, but with some trepidation I decided to try the dry based on $ savings and longer shelf life.  When it's time to order next time, perhaps the Chymax M will be available in the US and I'll consider getting some of that.

Thanks for the discussion - it really helped sort things out for me. 

[linuxboy]

...veg rennet can increase bitterness over time. Also, that calf rennet makes a better curd than veg. Is this still the current thinking?

Is this true?

I have been using veg rennet tablets from the beginning. Are bitterness and curd formation a problem with veg rennet?

All other things being equal, m. miehei-derived coagulant has a greater chance of causing proteolysis that favors protein hydrolysis at sites that result in liberation of hydrophobic peptides, which are bitter even in small concentrations. So yes, it is a problem inherent with the coagulant, although it does not always cause issues.

Curd formation is also selective, and animal rennet or FPC produce fewer fines. Strength is about the same.

[Jaap Jongia]

Colton Basset? Are you sure? I think it is another Stilton manufacturer.

[Boofer]

All other things being equal, m. miehei-derived coagulant has a greater chance of causing proteolysis that favors protein hydrolysis at sites that result in liberation of hydrophobic peptides, which are bitter even in small concentrations. So yes, it is a problem inherent with the coagulant, although it does not always cause issues.

Curd formation is also selective, and animal rennet or FPC produce fewer fines. Strength is about the same.

Great, so I've got a cheese cave filled with little bitter timebombs....   
I suppose I could pull the wheels out of the cave, dry them out, and fashion a little kiddie car for the grandkids in the family...a cheese mobile. Arrgh! 

Here goes my order for calf's rennet....

Thanks for clarifying, linuxboy.

-Boofer-

[linuxboy]

Colton Basset? Are you sure? I think it is another Stilton manufacturer.

Possibly it's both, I just remember seeing the memo from them in February or so about the switch so retailers can differentiate in case someone asked if the blue was a vegetarian cheese. They mentioned something about more complex aromatic compound production and better mouthfeel with animal rennet.

[linuxboy]

All other things being equal, m. miehei-derived coagulant has a greater chance of causing proteolysis that favors protein hydrolysis at sites that result in liberation of hydrophobic peptides, which are bitter even in small concentrations. So yes, it is a problem inherent with the coagulant, although it does not always cause issues.

Curd formation is also selective, and animal rennet or FPC produce fewer fines. Strength is about the same.

Great, so I've got a cheese cave filled with little bitter timebombs....   
I suppose I could pull the wheels out of the cave, dry them out, and fashion a little kiddie car for the grandkids in the family...a cheese mobile. Arrgh! 

Here goes my order for calf's rennet....

Thanks for clarifying, linuxboy.

-Boofer-

Woah, Boof, it's probably OK. Have to remember I have a bias (albeit fact-driven) . A microbial rennet can still produce a great cheese. It still has some market share as a coagulant. A lot of rennet is lost in the whey, and if you use the right amount, it should still turn out OK. And so much can happen during aging, that it's hard to predict bitterness.

I just wanted to point out that if possible, we should try to eliminate any sources of failure, and rennet is one possible source. For the small-scale production most of us do here, if we have no ethical objection or price objection to animal rennet, that's what we should use. And if there's a price objection but no GM objection, then use FPC. And if there's a strong GM objection, then that's the only case to use m. miehei coagulant. Both FPC and m miehei coagulant are vegetarian.

[Boofer]

Woah, Boof, it's probably OK. Have to remember I have a bias (albeit fact-driven) . A microbial rennet can still produce a great cheese. It still has some market share as a coagulant. A lot of rennet is lost in the whey, and if you use the right amount, it should still turn out OK. And so much can happen during aging, that it's hard to predict bitterness.

I just wanted to point out that if possible, we should try to eliminate any sources of failure, and rennet is one possible source. For the small-scale production most of us do here, if we have no ethical objection or price objection to animal rennet, that's what we should use. And if there's a price objection but no GM objection, then use FPC. And if there's a strong GM objection, then that's the only case to use m. miehei coagulant. Both FPC and m miehei coagulant are vegetarian.

Even more clear that I should be refining my process and changing to animal rennet. It is, after all, what has been in use since the first cheese was made. Old school.  I do appreciate you spelling it out for me. When I first bought the cheesemaking kit, it came with the m. miehei rennet. Now I have been enlightened. Progress. 

This bit of valued wisdom earns you a cheese. Thanks.

-Boofer-

[Sailor Con Queso]

The rennet that you have been using may certainly have contributed to some of the problems that you have had.

[Gina]

I just wanted to point out that if possible, we should try to eliminate any sources of failure, and rennet is one possible source.

Since I start with generic grocery store milk, I figure I need to reduce as many variables/possibilties for failure as I can - esp since I'm one of them. You got a cheese from me too, LB. Don't let them all go to your head.