Hello from New England

[The Apprentice]

My name is Jeff and I am from Brooklyn, CT. I have a small herd of Saanen dairy goats that I have been using to make chevre and aged cheese with. I have just been blessed with the opportunity in leasing a small micro dairy here in town.  Having already been making cheese for over a year one would think that this will be an easy transition. But to be honest I'm really nervous. I just took my first 4 wheels of cheddar, as manager out of the brine today and put them on the racks. Hoping to absorb as much info as I can from you folks and at the same time be as helpful as I can with the knowledge that I already have.

[Cheese Head]

Hi Jeff, welcome, wow congrats on having the opportunity and in taking the plunge, looking forward to hearing your adventures, both good and bad.

Will/is your milk source your goats and what are you going to do with all the product?

[The Apprentice]

We will be using our goats for our fresh chevre and aged cheese. We will be buying the cow milk for our other cheese from a local farm. The farm is fully functioning and the cave already has stock in it and we have been selling locally at farmers markets. I've been involved with the farm for some time now but on the animal husbandry side of the barn. Having been in the cheese room only a couple of times when it was in operation, I know I have a lot to learn. 

[Bishop]

Great to meet you Jeff 

[FRANCOIS]

Jeff,
How are you going to be aging the cheddar?  I assume it is cow?  Your options are vacuum pack, wax or bandage with a natural rind.  In all cases you need to keep the rind clean before bagging, waxing or bandaging for a few weeks.  The best way to do this is with a dip in pimaricin/natamycin.  It will keep mold from growing while the surface toughens and dries.  After 3 weeks you can then do the treatment of choice.  With your operation I would suggest bandaging, the other two options are tricky if the cheese isn't "just right" before packing.  Bandaged is more forgiving and provides a more artisan cheese.  What cultures did you use.  PM me for a culture mix. 

[KosherBaker]

Welcome to the board Jeff, and lots of success to you with your latest endeavor.

What cultures did you use.  PM me for a culture mix.

Whoa, how will we learn all of Francois secrets then, if you use PM.

[FRANCOIS]

Others are welcome to PM me as well.  It goes to my email in box which gives me a reminder to dig out the info. 

[The Apprentice]

We used M 4000 + 1  made by Danisco. We use MM100 for our Chevre. The cheddar is cow. I soaked the wheels in a brine mix and now they are in the cave on racks. I plan on waiting till they are dry to the touch then vacume seal  them. Probably another day or two. Thats the plan anyway.

[iratherfly]

Hi Jeff, welcome to the forum!

How fun! You are in a raw milk friendly state AND you have a micro dairy to lease AND you have goats!

[FRANCOIS]

Danisco's prefered/recommended mix for farmstead cheddar production is Choozit RA with either Holdbac LC or Flav 54 as flavour adjuncts.  All dosages on the low side of recommended.  RA is definitely what you want to use for a cheddar starter.  it is very slow to acidify(plan on a full day make) but the flavour profile is outstanding.  Remember to use calf rennet, not vegetable or microbial, for cheddar you plan to keep more than 6 months.  When you vacuum pack the cheese you can keep it anywhere from 4-8C.  Lower temps just take longer for it to mature.  Over say 10C and you'll be risking sever weepage in the bag.

[Chris_Abrahamson]

Remember to use calf rennet, not vegetable or microbial, for cheddar you plan to keep more than 6 months. 

Why is this?  I think I read in a food science text that veg rennets are more proteolytic than calf.  If so, does that impact aging?

[linuxboy]

Because even though FPC is chemically just about identical to rennin, it's still not the same as calf rennet. Calf rennet will give you slower proteolysis and will cleave fewer b-casein hydrophobic bonds, and has higher affinity for secondary and tertiary cleaving of as1 and as2 caseins to contribute to balanced flavor formation.

Yes, absolutely, rennet choice affects aging, especially when you get into long-term situations more than 4-6 months.

Francois is exactly right, that's the same thing Danisco has told me for farmhouse cheddar production. Hansen has their own mix in the RA FD and FD-DVS with the CR series flavor adjuncts.

[iratherfly]

Calf rennet will give you slower proteolysis and will cleave fewer b-casein hydrophobic bonds, and has higher affinity for secondary and tertiary cleaving of as1 and as2 caseins to contribute to balanced flavor formation.

Is that a way to say "not as bitter"?  I kid, I kid...

Seriously now, I feel that veg rennet has a different effect also on my short aged goat's cheese. Animal rennet tends to really enhance the lipase properties in the short run on goat's cheese and I find the veg rennet to be more rounded and less sharp. In the long run however, totally the opposite: veg rennet seems to go the other way and feel somewhat more bitter where calve rennet is rock stable and predictable. I think they gave a different lipolysis profile with a different time curve too. Maybe I am just lacking enough long-aging cheese experience. Most of my cheese is less than 90 days. I am more of a washed rind or surface ripened cheese person, I love stinky cheese and soft paste.  Linuxboy, Francois, do you care to stir my pure assumptions the right way?

I also often wondered about using farmstead culture for my Tommes but I am not sure why I would do that if my cheese never gets to thermophilic condition.  I did find it in some softer cheese formulas such as Reblochon. Not sure I get it.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Iratherfly

Thermophiles do not have to get up to higher temperatures to be active and they can contribute significantly to the final flavor profile and texture. In particular S. helveticus in small doses can be a very effective adjunct culture, even if you never get up to thermo temperature. It controls off tastes from bitter peptides, enhances flavor, and accelerates aging.

[linuxboy]

I think they gave a different lipolysis profile with a different time curve too. Maybe I am just lacking enough long-aging cheese experience. Most of my cheese is less than 90 days. I am more of a washed rind or surface ripened cheese person, I love stinky cheese and soft paste.  Linuxboy, Francois, do you care to stir my pure assumptions the right way?

This depends on your animal rennet. Because when I make rennet from the stomach of 4-week old goat kids, I cannot replicate that rennet exactly in the next batch, especially if I'm saving the esterase and letting them suckle right before. And that mix will be different from lamb rennet, which will be different from calf rennet.

With bloomy rind cheeses, it is the affinage (temp+humidity), culture amounts, and flora mix that do more for proteolysis and lipolysis, than rennet. But there definitely is a difference. I prefer kid rennet when making those styles of cheeses, and make it myself by sacrificing the bucklings.

Sailor is right. You have to remember that for adjuncts, it's NOT about acidification. Temp is irrelevant for them. The adjunct is to introduce peptidases and proteases to achieve specific flavor formation goals in your cheese sensory attributes.

For Reblochon, did they use TA, or was it a bacillus? Because TA in Reblochon is used to stabilize the paste. Bacillus adjunct would be used for additional flavor notes or to make a nontraditional make, or for a thermo cheese like tallegio.