PeeeeUuuuuu! Smells awful

[Sailor Con Queso]

I bag around 90 days.

[darius]

That's kinda my goal, Sailor.

[Boofer]

I'll have to try that, but at just over 3 weeks I think it's too soon? Bear in mind I have never made a 'Stilton' so I have NO experience. Heck I barely have any cheese experience!

I'm with you there, Darius. Having just made my 33rd cheese, I'm barely scratching the surface of my cheese knowledge.
Ah, see, there's more to come! 

-Boofer-

[Sailor Con Queso]

There are several different strains of PR available. Some come on fast and die off quicker, others come on much slower. Some are different colors blue, blue-grey, blue-green. Some are more proteolytic than others and can effect your timing.

[Boofer]

There are several different strains of PR available. Some come on fast and die off quicker, others come on much slower. Some are different colors blue, blue-grey, blue-green. Some are more proteolytic than others and can effect your timing.

How can you know which (and not just PR) are more proteolytic than others? If some particular culture is going to affect my affinage down the road, that would be a good thing to be aware of.

-Boofer-

[Sailor Con Queso]

Well that's sort of a loaded question. You can always ask your supplier, but a lot of it is personal preference and trying a particular strain to see what happens. You should also be aware that many cultures are not generally available to the hobbyist (unless you know what to ask for).

For example Dairy Connection only lists 1 PR strain (the PV) for sale to hobbyists, but they actually have 3 different ones that have different growth rates, colors, flavors, and proteolytic properties. Here are their descriptions:

________________________________________

PV: Very fast growth rate; strong blue flavor; bluish-green color. Very creamy consistency, e.g. Edelpilz, Roquefort and strong Gorgonzola-type.

PJ: Fast growth rate; typical blue flavor; middle-green color. Can be mixed with PV, no unbound moisture, long shelf life, e.g. Edelpilz or Roquefort.

PA: Very fast growth rate; mild blue flavor; dark-green color. Mild cheese, can be mixed with PV, long shelf life, e.g. danish blue and double-mould-type cheese.

________________________________________

If you read between the lines, you can infer that "long shelf life" means less proteolitic activity. "No unbound moisture" is probably going to produce a drier finished cheese.

[Boofer]

Sailor - that helps my understanding. I went to Glengarry for mine.

They have PRB6, PRB18, PS, PJ, and PA. At least I know some of the characteristics of two of those now.

I used PRB18 for my Stilton #2.

Anyone out there know any specifics on PRB18?

-Boofer-

[Sailor Con Queso]

Just a different brand and delivery method. PRB18 is Danisco's liquid suspension very similar to the Choosit PV dry culture. The PV seems to have a little higher salt tolerance and for me has been more proteolytic if the moisture content of the cheese is high. So, which one is really more proteolytic? Depends on the cheese, your make style, the finished pH, salt content, aging temps, moisture content, etc. You try both, pick one, and stick with it. Or make your own custom mix just like you can with starter bacteria. I make 5 different kinds of blues, a different one every week. On some blues I use just a PV. On others I use a PV/PJ mix to get the slower proteolysis and milder flavor profile that I want.

[Boofer]

I'm not sure but it seems like the one that's in the Royal Blue Stilton is a light to medium green (PJ?). I'm not a true blue cheese afficionado, but I liked the Royal a lot. I hope the PRB18 doesn't end up being too "over the top".

I pierced them this evening and the paste seems creamy already. I realize they've got quite a way to go before they'll be optimal. I can wait. If I get tired of waiting, I'll make something else. 

-Boofer-

[T-Bird]

this is all interesting to me. I didn't know (but it makes sense) about the different lines or strains of PR.  The first blue that I made 3yrs ago tasted probably the best of all I have made, but didn't blue as well in the paste, so I wasn't happy. It was also my 1st cheese. Oddly enough, I  used a mold rich piece of real stilton as the "culture". My wife, in watching me thru my efforts to achieve success in this complex hobby, said "I don't know why you don't just use some of the "real" cheese like you did the first time!"----she might have been right. T-Bird

[Tomer1]

Also you should sample to see how the veining is progressing, once you think you have enough move it to your household fridge.
The low temp should slow down the growth of PR.

[darius]

I finally cut this "stilton"... obviously the piercings closed up, although there is some blue evident. Looks okay but not great, smells okay. However, the taste is awful... bitter overrides the blue.

Got to figure out what I'm doing wrong as most of my cheese is bitter after 60-90 days.

[JeffHamm]

Hi darius,

A shame you're getting bitterness.  I had one caerphilly that had some, but not overpowering like you've described.  Also, after having cut it it faded, and became less bitter.  It's a shame, because those blues you show look really good, though not overly viened, the paste looks great.  Nice and firm, yet moist.  And I would have thought there was enough blue mold to give some blue flavour as well. 

Hmmmm, what are you using for rennet?  Are you using tablets or liquid?  Calf or vegetarian?  Rennet is the usual first port of call for bitterness as I understand it.  I would think you would get an exceptionally fast floc if you over rennetted, but you've usually reported good floc times. 

After that, perhaps your curds are retaing too much whey?  But I would think that would result in more a spoiled flavour.  What do you have for a press? (Although blues aren't pressed, so this shouldn't be the case here I wouldn't think).

What's your aging temperature?  I see you've got a fridge, so I would think it should be fairly constant.  Could it be too warm?  Maybe double check that. 

Other than that, I can't think of anything else to check.  It's weird because your makes always look to go well.  Hopefully some of the experts will be able to offer more learned advice. 

- Jeff

[darius]

I'm using liquid calf rennet, from Glengarry. The early cheese I made using Marschall rennet tabs were slightly bitter too, which is why I ordered liquid calf rennet.

Cave temps hover around 54-55ºF (12-13ºC).

Pressing is still rudimentary with free weights, but of course blues don't get pressed so it cannot be pressing. I don't think it's retention of whey either, as one of the Lancs and one Caerphilly were a bit dry... but still had bitter overtones.

[JeffHamm]

Hmmm,

I know the veg. rennet is often mentioned as being bitter sometimes after longer aging, but that would be much more than 90 days.  I even cut back on the recommended amount.  My rennet says 0.7 ml for 10 L of milk, but I find 0.6 ml produces a good floc time and a good curd.  Given that you've got overpowering bitterness though, I really don't think it could be the rennet.

Your aging temp seems in the right range.  It is a bit warmer than my cave though, which I keep around 10C.  The only other thing I can think of is maybe you've got some sort of wild mold that produces a strong bitter flavour?  But that would be noticable when it started growing. 

And it's not ammonia, or something that airs out if you leave the cheese to breath, since I recall you mentioned that it remains even if you let it sit around for a couple hours.

I think we'll have to wait for some more expert advice to suggest areas to consider.  It's certainly a mystery.

- Jeff

P.S.  I was just reading a thread on mother cultures, and Sailor made a comment along the lines of using too much starter culture leads to "acidic bitter cheese" ... bitter being the key word here.  Hmmm, given that the bitterness increases as it ages, then if the starter bacterias are still working away, could it be that you need to cut down on your starter amounts?  Just another variable to consider.