First camembert, need your help please.

[Fix]

Hello. 

I will make my first camembert today and I have a question.
I have setup a refrigerator with humidity level of 90-95% and Temp. 11-13C.
In the recipe I need to put it in the aging container after drain and put it in
the cave area and wrap it after 2 weeks. Like I understand, in my situation
I don't need to put it in the container because I have good humidity and temp.
levels in the refrigerator and I can age them just inside with out any containers?

10-14 days at 12-15C / 95% then just down the temp. to 3-4C / 95% and age
more for 3-4 weeks? Or anyway I need to put it in the container wit closed lid ...

Thank you. 

[Cheese Head]

Hello Fix, welcome!

Your understanding is correct that if you have your cave set up with correct temp & hummidity then you don't need to additionally put the Cams in ripening-aging containers.

But those containers do give a few other advantages that you may want to think about:

• They provide an easy place to catch and clean out the remaining draining whey, in your fridge it would not be good if the whey dripped on cheeses on next shelf below.
• They provide an easier way to fine tune your humidity, many gauges are poor at measuring very high 90-95% RH.
• They provide a barrier, ok poor barrier, for P candidum to spread to other non PC type cheeses.

I've been updating the Wiki: Brie / Camembert Cheese Making Recipe article with posts in this board, you may find some more useful stuff there.

[Fix]

Thank you very much for your answer.  In the recipe I've expected to have a good
curd after 1 hour or so. But it's already 6 hours passed and I don't have yet a good
curd, I'm thinking maybe begin everything one more time with more rennet and
with 3.7% milk. At this moment I'm using one with 2.3% ... Or just wait few hours more
to not loosing milk ... 

[Fix]

No it's 22:30 here ... and curd was not formed, didn't got time to dry it.
Next try in 2 days.  *1st FAIL*

[Cheese Head]

Well sugar! Several reasons why you have not got a good rennet curd set, see our Wiki: Coagulation Defects article: https://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki/

Without the rennet coagulation you should still with correct time and temp get a lactic acid coagulation and you could use it to make cream cheese. See the Coagulation article for info on Lactic Coagulation.

Cheers!

[Fix]

Thank you man.
Temperature of milk too low or high - to low I know is under 29.5C and to high it's how much? 
And one more question if I will have no curd set after 1-2 hours, I can wait more and make any
way a camember or camember request to set curd exactly in 1-2 first hours after adding rennet?

[Cheese Head]

Optimum rennet coagulation temperature is 30-36°C / 86-96°F, so your 29.5 C was fine. The reason for not getting a good rennet coagulation curd set could be several as per the article linked above. If you post more details we could try and figure out why for you. Normal solution if can't locate the problem is to increase the rennet dosage rate.

For lactic acid coagulation you normally let milk set with mesophilic (low temp loving) starter culture overnight to get a softer curd, to get a reasonable set you should be above ~21°C / 70°F.

I would say no if you don't get a rennet coagulated curd in normal time frame then you should proceed to use that batch for making some sort of lactic coagulated cheese. This is because the acidity increase curve will be way off, and less whey expulsion without the rennet action. That said there are many primarily lactic acid cheeses using P candidum to surface rippen the cheese, we have a whole board just for them.

[Fix]

Thank you. I need to read WIKI very informative here, missed this part.

[Fix]

Hm ... how to understand it please. Maybe it's my Eng. but I can't understand this:

Milk is warmed to optimum rennet coagulation temperature of 30-36°C / 86-96°F.
Higher temperatures up to ~43°C / 110°F result in faster coagulation times.
Above 40°C / 104°F and the rennet becomes inactivated.

30-36°C = Good coagulation.
43°C = Fast coagulation.
Above 40°C = rennet inactive (no coagulation).

But 43°C is above 40°C ... and it say that above 40°C rennet is inactive. 

[Cheese Head]

Good catch, thanks, corrected!

For rennet coagulated cheese making you should follow the recipe which should have coagulation at temp somewhere between 30-36C.

[Fix]

You are welcome.   
Thank you for your help. I will post something when I will have good results.

[Fix]

*2nd FAIL* Need help for sure now ...

1. Heat pasteurized 3.7% milk to 32°C.
2. Added 1/4 tsp. of calcium chloride in 50ml in water and added it to the milk.
3. In 2 mins. added mix of starter MM101 + Penicillium Candidum +Geotrichum Candidum.
4. Stir for 2 mins. and let set for ~90 mins. at stable temp. of 32°C.
5. In ~90 mins. added 1/8 tsp. of liquid rennet (double force) in 20ml of water and added it to the milk.
6. Stir for 2 min. and let set it till good curd. (normaly 45 mins.)
7. In 45 mins. there was no stable curd in 2 hours cuted curd.
8. Let it "heal" and tried to gently stir it.
9. Curd become "porridge" with no "diamonds" ...
10. Tried to put it in the mold ... everything gose out from holes in the sides of mold.
11. Opened bottle of good wine, to much stress. 

p.s: I've got something like this after gently stir it. But not holded in muld, just gose out from holes with curd and whey.

[Cheese Head]

Good thing you had a good bottle of wine!

On stirring in ingredients, there's some info here, basically stir in slowly in up and down motio with perf ladle if you have one, no rapid stirring with wisk.

Getting a good rennet curd set is tough, that said it is not a firm gel but very soft, see some info and pics here.

Your curd was as you said too soft which is why it fell apart when stirred. So next time increase the rennet dosage rate and then if too fast a curd back off. Three different methods to tell when to cut here, for now you could use 1 or 2 and worry about floc rate on later makes.

On your picture, whey is clear indicating good break thus good acidification and rennet action. Next time after healing the cut curds, also stir initially for 30 seconds slowly and very gently then as curds heal you can slowly build up to more agressive stirring.

For this batch you could gravity drain in a cheesecloth bag and make Light Cream Cheese / American Neufchatel.

PS: Thx for picture, really helps, instead of linking there is a How To Upload in FAQs board, better method in case your link gets broken in future then others can't see picture.

Others, please feel free to pipe in and advise.

[Gustav]

LOL, That's how we all learn I guess. That pic looks to me if it had too much acid levels eg. sour milk or too much acidification. It looks like the 30 min mozz recipe if you added WAAAY too much citric acid. But that's just my opinion.

[Fix]

Thanks. But it's your image.  Just found it to show example of what I've got.
The problem is that I've got the same as you on the image, but with no clear
indicated whey. My one was like kefir.