My German/Swiss Tilsit #1

[Boofer]

Looks like the blue has come under control. Thank goodness.

Just washing every other day with 3% brine + linens. I need to brush it a little more to further reduce the rind to a smoother character.

-Boofer-

[silverjam]

Hi Boofer. Thanks for the Tilsit recipe. I really love this type of cheese and want to make it. My terminology of bacteria/cultures is different to yours I think. Can you tell me what TA61 and SR3 is? I am guessing it is mesophilic or something like that? Also what is floc'd? And do you use b linens in/on the cheese? Sorry for being such a newbie.

[iratherfly]

silverjam TA61 is a strain of thermophilic starter culture. It is also commonly used to stabilized non-thermophilic cheeses.  SR3 is a strain of B.Linens for red rind development.

Boofer Do not fear the mucor... (seriously, I see that glove!). A good technique that often works better than brushing / vinegar is to introduce with your wash a competing rind bacterium. Geo and PC competes with blue. SAM3 for example is an anti-mucor PC strain. You obviously don't need it for this cheese as a rind components, but you can add it to the wash until the blue recedes and the B.Linen blooms well. Try it next time...

Overly aggressive mucor in cheese (especially after you have introduced starter bacteria of your own) can be a sign of several serious conditions such as an old starter culture that is not strong enough and is over-taken by competing lactic bacteria already in the milk, or milk that already has too much bacteria or contamination in it, or milk from animals treated with antibiotics that kill your pro-biotic starter cultures. These often would be accompanied by unusual pH readings for your process and timing expectations. Otherwise whatever you inoculate into your cheese should be plenty to make it the dominant.

[Boofer]

Hi Boofer. Thanks for the Tilsit recipe. I really love this type of cheese and want to make it. My terminology of bacteria/cultures is different to yours I think. Can you tell me what TA61 and SR3 is? I am guessing it is mesophilic or something like that? Also what is floc'd? And do you use b linens in/on the cheese? Sorry for being such a newbie.

Flocculation is the action of the rennet curdling the milk. Search on it in the forum. As the SR3 pic shows, you can add it to the milk along with the TA61 (or other cultures) and/or spray it on after the cheese has been formed.

Keep asking questions. That's how you get answers.

Boofer Do not fear the mucor... (seriously, I see that glove!). A good technique that often works better than brushing / vinegar is to introduce with your wash a competing rind bacterium. Geo and PC competes with blue.

Ah, yes, my gloves.... Well, I'm afraid I'm guilty. I use throw-away surgical gloves whenever I'm working with my cheeses. It's something I adopted from the start with an eye towards reducing ANY possibility of errant infection. I wouldn't consider myself AR but the hands do have creases & crevices which could harbor nasties for my precious  cheeses. If you look back on previous pics you may see the glove...it's there even if you don't see it.

Mucor...   I would think that's more apparent on my Tomme #4 which has mycodore added. Is the blue strain considered mucor?
Mucor = Mold?...Fungus?

I had been washing with 3% brine plus linens, but the blue (for a while there) was pretty insistent. Good information on possible causes and preventions, iratherfly. Thanks. I became convinced as to the effectiveness of PC locking out any rind invaders with my recent Reblochon. They didn't have a chance. I wanted to stay true to the recipe for this effort, but I may opt for a little Geo in the wash next time (if this one turns out fairly good).

-Boofer-

[silverjam]

Thanks so much to everyone for all the info. In Australia there don't seem to be so many specific cultures/moulds. I am hesitant to buy online from overseas because of unknown transport temps and possible extended time etc. I'll have a search thought because I really luv the taste of Tilsit and Raclette. Any suggestions of similar style cheeses? Thanks for everything.

[Boofer]

Thanks so much to everyone for all the info. In Australia there don't seem to be so many specific cultures/moulds. I am hesitant to buy online from overseas because of unknown transport temps and possible extended time etc. I'll have a search thought because I really luv the taste of Tilsit and Raclette. Any suggestions of similar style cheeses? Thanks for everything.

I'm not that familiar with cheese making supply houses down under, but I'm sure there are some folks on here who can steer you to local vendors.

The cultures used in this cheese aren't really complex or necessarily hard to duplicate. You could try using a good fresh yogurt as the thermophilic culture. Search on the forum for details. Just washing with a light brine (3%) should bring forth the b. linens (like SR3) action on the rind. If you need the true recipe and not just what I've written for my make here, PM me and I'll get it to you.

-Boofer-

[iratherfly]

Boofer, mucor could be any one or more of many species of naturally-occurring wild fungus. It is usually traced back to soil, plants, yeasts and animals of the area. It grows on the cheese without you inoculating it.  Though technically it is a contamination, it is often intentionally used by cheesemakers to give cheese flavors and aromas, usually by enabling the growth of complex thick rinds.  It can die over time or with high temperature (over 90°F-95°F), or by salting.

With Tommes for example, it is common to let it grow wild and then brush it flat (not brush it off). Let it grow more and brush it again, etc. - until you get a thick and rustic rind that smells like cellar, barn, mushrooms, etc. The geo or mycodore will grow white through the dark mucor it next, giving it overall gray-ish appearance and great flavor and aroma profile.

If you are not expecting it to show up then don't use anti mucor bacteria in your wash.  Wash it regularly and only if you see an unwanted mucor attack, add the bacteria to your wash as a response.  You can also use some competing bacteria as a method of maintaining controlled mucor growth in combination with other rind flora -producing a mixed surface rind. Keep in mind that that the bacteria that you intentionally inoculate into your milk is stable and pure, and has far higher resistance to competition, to salt, temperatures, moisture Etc. It typically spreads out faster than mucor too and will out-survive it in the long term.

I have notes from three different world class cheesemakers here that specify how to work mucor to improve quality of different cheeses. It's not all bad... (though I agree it does NOT belong with Tilsit!)

As for the gloves - you really don't need them as long as you washed your hands.  As I mentioned above, your inoculated rind bacteria is strong and alive and will out-compete the stuff that comes from your clean hands. Besides, some stuff that is naturally present in your hand such as staphylococcus can actually help the cheese.  If you are worried about getting your hands infected by mucor - don't be. Mucor should die at body temperature (another way of getting rid of it, by the way). In any event... if you can eat it, you can certainly touch it 

[Boofer]

If you are worried about getting your hands infected by mucor - don't be.

Nope, the other way around. Ah, well, it's part of my adopted regimen so I'll stick with it. I had a head cold last winter, but I still needed to wash & wipe my cheeses down. At that time I had on a surgical mask in addition to the gloves. Nurse, hand me that vinegar wipe...STAT! What can I say? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Good information, Yoav. Thanks. I'll be copying-pasting-filing your guidance away in my cheese folder.

-Boofer-

[Boofer]

Just 12 more days. The suspense is killing me. That will mark 90 days affinage for this cheese.

I have an Austrian Tilsit waiting in the fridge with which to compare this cheese. I still have a pretty clear memory what the previous German Tilsit tasted and felt like. I am hoping....

-Boofer-

[Cloversmilker]

Be sure and let us know how it tastes. 

[iratherfly]

Really nice Boofer! I want a taste please!!!

[silverjam]

Because you guys are the tilsit experts i thought i would post my question here... I made a tilsit (200 home made cheese book recipe) about 10 days ago and have been washing it according to the recipe and generally in line with what is in this post. My question is is it generally a dryer rind cheese or is the rind always moist and slightly sticky? I ask that because I am not sure if I am keeping it too moist or not? Mine is not dry and is slightly sticky but is showing a yellowy tinge on the top and bottom now where it is slightly dryer. I ask this because boofer's tilsit looks less moist than mine - although I recognise my tilsit is also very young. Any thoughts appreciated.

[iratherfly]

I never made one but it seems to me it should be rather sticky until it is ready to pack and then you give it a day or two of cool drying (basically take it down from 90-95% RH to 75-80% RH and turn it a few times over 48 hours in that environment. Some convection is a +). Then you can wrap it for storage or open it up.

Until then I would keep it very moist, but that moisture should come from the aging container and not by leaving the rind overly wet. (That would just create a thicker drier dark yellow layer underneath a very thin rind; rather annoying).

[Boofer]

My Tilsit was started on July 30th and I'll cut into it this weekend at three months' affinage.

I stopped washing it a couple weeks ago or so. The linens had developed to a reasonable point and I keep it in its minicave to maintain humidity. Even though the washing has stopped, the top and bottom still remain slightly tacky. The edge of course is dry as is the case with all my semi-hard and hard cheeses. If I depress gently on the top or bottom surfaces, it gives slightly. This tells me that the paste is going to be reasonably moist and pliable.

This is my first Tilsit effort. I have tasted a German Tilsit previously and I have an Austrian Tilsit patiently waiting for the Cutting of the Cheese this weekend so that I can do a very subjective comparison.

I will be vacuum-sealing the cut portions after the "big" event this weekend.

-Boofer-

[Boofer]

Let the cutting of the cheese begin! 

Eagerly anticipated, today I sampled my first Tilsit wannabe!

I cut into it and my Tomme #4 at the three month mark today. My wife joined in the taste comparison. I thank her for that since she has a more finely-tuned nose. Hey, Honey, smell this! 

She liked my cheeses over the Austrian Tilsit, saying it had a slightly bitter aftertaste. Interesting. She did tell me she liked the Tomme #4  best of all. What I found curious is that the commercial Austrian Tilsit had no rind. It was softer, moister, and more pliable than my Tilsit and it had a creamier mouthfeel. These are characteristics I would like to develop in mine. My Tilsit was fairly good for a first effort, but it missed the mark on those features.

We both agreed that both of my cheeses were very enjoyable and certainly lacked those downgrading traits common to some of my earlier cheese efforts:

• bitter
• crumbly
• too acidic
• too much salt

After cutting a sample for my son and his family, I vacuum-sealed the remainder for continued aging.

-Boofer-