Raw milk and cultures

[Helen]

Hello All,

I have started using raw milk in my makes and was wondering if I should be using the same quantities of cultures as I would with pasteurized milk.

Thanks!
Helen

[linuxboy]

For which cheese? Generally, it depends on the bacteriological quality of the milk.

[Helen]

Thanks for your interest in my question, Linuxboy.

I am going to make Camembert next weekend.

I have no idea what the bacteriological quality of my milk is. I buy it from a licensed dairy.

Thanks again for your input.

- Helen

[linuxboy]

If you are making a traditional camembert (full meso), cut the culture by about 1/3 to start. If you are not hitting the pH markers in time, then increase it slightly. If hitting too fast, back off some more . Whenever there's a new variable, like different milk, usually recipes need to be tweaked.

It's really tough to say without tests. For example, I have seen raw milk total plate counts that were 25% of pasteurized milk from clean dairies.

[Tomer1]

"Cleaner" you mean?

[Helen]

Thank you, Linuxboy. I will definitely follow your advice.

[Boofer]

If you are making a traditional camembert (full meso), cut the culture by about 1/3 to start. If you are not hitting the pH markers in time, then increase it slightly. If hitting too fast, back off some more . Whenever there's a new variable, like different milk, usually recipes need to be tweaked.

That's been a question floating around in my head for awhile now. A recipe calls for a specific measure of acidifying culture. What is the time that the milk would be expected to reach the target pH? Using P/H milk, raw milk, or a blend of both, my make may sometimes extend into 3 hours waiting for the pH to drop. Should I be using more meso or thermo culture to shorten that time and reach my target earlier?

I would guess that using mother culture would accomplish the same goal.

-Boofer-

[linuxboy]

A recipe calls for a specific measure of acidifying culture.

Most recipes will specify 1% bulk equivalent. This is the classic amount that people have used historically. However, it often needs to be adjusted to fit the entire make and milk.

What is the time that the milk would be expected to reach the target pH?

Up to you. Remember, you're trying to balance calcium levels with syneresis, with preventing contamination while milk and curd are at that danger zone with high temps and low acidity.

may sometimes extend into 3 hours waiting for the pH to drop.

Generally, I like to be in the mold/hoop not more than 4-5 hours into the make. A 3 hr wait pre renetting for a hard cheese is way too long for me.

Should I be using more meso or thermo culture to shorten that time and reach my target earlier?

Yes, it shouldn't take quite that long, unless you're deliberately aiming for that style, like you would for a tomme of beaufort.

I would guess that using mother culture would accomplish the same goal.

And why I prefer it

[dthelmers]

Boofer,
Same here. Usually around three hours, but this weekend it took 3-1/2 to hit 6.45. I should have measured the pH of the milk before I started, but I was too casual. I made a cheese in a class I taught at a camping event a couple of weeks ago, and I used a mother culture. It took less than half the usual time. I think it's going to be mother culture from this point out just for the time factor. Or I might save and freeze some of the whey for culturing. Any pitfalls in that?
Dave in CT

[Helen]

So I made my camembert yesterday.

I used direct cultures and after 2.5 hours, I still had not reached the target pH post renneting. At this time, I just gave up and added the rennet. I guess I have some progress to make!

I will look into those mother cultures.

- Helen

[dthelmers]

Helen,
Sailor Con Queso did a great photo essay on making mother cultures, here:
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,5165.0.html
Dave in CT

[Helen]

Thanks, Dave

[Hande]

Same here, to me it take too long time to get right pH after adding culture. In press pH drop too quick.
Last 2 tomme makes I ripen only 30min and then renneting, And take only notes of pH at that point.

preventing contamination while milk and curd are at that danger zone with high temps and low acidity

I use raw milk and that is what I be afraid a pit.

Hande

[Boofer]

Seems like there are quite a few folks sitting and waiting for something to happen...like me.

That tells me a number of things:

• Most of the cheese-making books don't mention (and caution the maker about) that possible time lag for ripening.
• The amount of dry acidifying culture being added may be too low. What are the cautions concerning too much culture?
• Perhaps more folks should be strongly encouraged to adopt mother cultures rather than use dry cultures.
• Looks like I need to find some more freezer space for my mother culture cubes. (No, Honey, don't use those for your iced tea...they're special.  )

-Boofer-

[dthelmers]

I've thought about adding more starter culture, but I don't know how that will effect the acidification farther down the line. I've been wondering if it will speed the entire process up too much. Using the mother culture worked quite well, but I'll need more freezer space, which is currently at a premium.
Dave in CT