Cheddar with Stout

[dthelmers]

I really didn't think about the pH of the stout reduction, and I realize that this was a mistake. I think I ran into a similar issue with my horseradish Cheddars, adding pickled horseradish and not accounting for the acidity I was introducing. It fused OK, but not great. It fractures easily along the curd lines. Judging from the flavor that a Gouda that I made picked up when I soaked it in stout, I think that soaking may be the best way to add some flavor. I've been following another thread where the cheese has been soaked in wine for a day, then dried for a day, then soaked again. For flavor, I think that soaking may be a better method, but I'm trying for that pretty effect of the dark lines outlining the curds in the cheese; I may be better off just focusing on making better tasting cheese, and ignoring the glitz factor. Honestly, the Caerphillys that I have made have been the best - just good simple cheese. But I love to tinker!

[beechercreature]

What's de-bittered black? I was worried about the astringency too, especially with a dry cheddar.

not sure how they make it. huskless, perhaps? but it's supposed to be just like the black patent but without astringency.

http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Castle-De%252dBittered-Black-Malt-%28by-the-ounce%29.html

[beechercreature]

I've been following this with interest.  Do you know the pH of your stout reduction?  The reason I ask is because of the problem jlewis and I ran into when trying to make port mottled cheddars.  Read about it here.  https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9258.0.html
Near the end of the thread Francois and linuxboy explain why it didn't work. 

I have 3 cheshires made about the same time.  I'm wondering about soaking one of them in port at maturation to see what flavor develops.

very interesting. you'd have to measure the stout to find out. The ph while the grains are mashing should be around 5.2 (optimally), but it rises as you 'sparge' so that the final beer should be somewhere above 5.2.

I took this from John Palmer:
Using a dark crystal or roasted malt as 20% of the grainbill will often bring the pH down by half a unit (.5 pH). In distilled water, 100% caramel malt would typically yield a mash pH of 4.5-4.8, chocolate malt 4.3-4.5, and black malt 4.0-4.2.

So if you were to add black malt to the beer reduction, it should drop the ph a bit.

[anutcanfly]

You could neutralize some of the acidity with baking soda prior to soaking, but I don't know if it would create more problems?

[DeejayDebi]

I tried this a few years ago with a porter and a port as an experiment and found it to be very light in color. I cut the port 15 minutes after the press to see if it meshed well and was surprised.

https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2918.msg23790/topicseen.html#msg23790

[smellysell]

I've been following this with interest.  Do you know the pH of your stout reduction?  The reason I ask is because of the problem jlewis and I ran into when trying to make port mottled cheddars.  Read about it here.  https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9258.0.html
Near the end of the thread Francois and linuxboy explain why it didn't work. 

I have 3 cheshires made about the same time.  I'm wondering about soaking one of them in port at maturation to see what flavor develops.

very interesting. you'd have to measure the stout to find out. The ph while the grains are mashing should be around 5.2 (optimally), but it rises as you 'sparge' so that the final beer should be somewhere above 5.2.

I took this from John Palmer:
Using a dark crystal or roasted malt as 20% of the grainbill will often bring the pH down by half a unit (.5 pH). In distilled water, 100% caramel malt would typically yield a mash pH of 4.5-4.8, chocolate malt 4.3-4.5, and black malt 4.0-4.2.

So if you were to add black malt to the beer reduction, it should drop the ph a bit.

I definitely wouldn't boil whatever grain you choose, you'll get a ton of astringency.  I think I would just try steeping some carafa after you get done reducing the stout.

[beechercreature]

I definitely wouldn't boil whatever grain you choose, you'll get a ton of astringency.  I think I would just try steeping some carafa after you get done reducing the stout.

that's a common misconception. almost all traditional german brewing calls for decoction mash, which boils the grain several times, yet they get no astringency from it.

[smellysell]

I definitely wouldn't boil whatever grain you choose, you'll get a ton of astringency.  I think I would just try steeping some carafa after you get done reducing the stout.

that's a common misconception. almost all traditional german brewing calls for decoction mash, which boils the grain several times, yet they get no astringency from it.

They don't use heavily roasted grains in decoction mashes though.

[beechercreature]

I definitely wouldn't boil whatever grain you choose, you'll get a ton of astringency.  I think I would just try steeping some carafa after you get done reducing the stout.

that's a common misconception. almost all traditional german brewing calls for decoction mash, which boils the grain several times, yet they get no astringency from it.

They don't use heavily roasted grains in decoction mashes though.

shwarzbier.

[smellysell]

I definitely wouldn't boil whatever grain you choose, you'll get a ton of astringency.  I think I would just try steeping some carafa after you get done reducing the stout.

that's a common misconception. almost all traditional german brewing calls for decoction mash, which boils the grain several times, yet they get no astringency from it.

They don't use heavily roasted grains in decoction mashes though.

shwarzbier.

I don't think most schwarz are decocted, though I'm not positive, so could definitely be wrong.  Carafa is also used for the color, which has no husk.

[jlewis92]

Regarding your use of black patent or debittered, you could also use dehusked carafa. I use it all the time in my brews and it gives a very smooth roast flavor and no tannins/astringency since the husks have been removed.

Or what about soaking it in Sinamar (the Weyermann concentrated dark coloring/extract)? That has very high Lovibond.

[smellysell]

Regarding your use of black patent or debittered, you could also use dehusked carafa. I use it all the time in my brews and it gives a very smooth roast flavor and no tannins/astringency since the husks have been removed.

Or what about soaking it in Sinamar (the Weyermann concentrated dark coloring/extract)? That has very high Lovibond.

That's a really good idea.  Hadn't even considered that.