Inspired by OzzieCheese I'm now making a big blue monster...
It is a natural rind blue cheese (recipe from Caldwell's brilliant book Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking).
The make went fint except for a very long flocculation time (25 minutes) - I think that my rennet may have been stored to cold. New rennet (paste) is on its way...
The cheese was made from 24 litres of ecological milk (pasteurized). I made my own culture blend as I didn't have the cultures used in the recipe:
0,56 g MA14
0,16 g MD88
0,20 g TA60
0,45 g P. Roqueforti
4,50 ml calcium chloride
5,00 ml natural calf rennet
85 g salt
I haven't got pictures from before the cheese was unmoulded but here are a couple from this morning. Notice the two flexible cutting boards I used to extend the mould (idea from someone else on the forum a few days ago - can't remember who - but brilliant idea). Also note the mesh tied around the cheese to support it - this was neccesary for my cheese (tip from Caldwell's book). The mesh will be used as long as needed during ageing.
:-) Danbo
Looks like you're well on your way to a awesome blue Danbo. Just did one on Friday however, I'll be watching yours with great interest. That's one big cheese!! :D
I'm watching too. Can't wait to see. I just pierced a couple of Stilton's Friday.
Thanks Al and Andrew,
I only had some success with previous blues. I'm very excited with this one. I choose to go all in and make a big tall one - this is the first one of my cheeses that needs scaffolding to support it... ;-)
I really hope for success - I'll keep you posted... Cross my fingers! :-)
:-) Danbo
Oh Wow - what a monster !! The size looks fantastic and what a great idea to extend the mould. Will keep this bookmarked as I'm very interested to see how it progresses.
--Mal
Oh and a Cheese !!
Thanks for the cheese Mal. :-)
I'm feeling a little performance anxiety now... I hope that it will become as scary as your blue cheese.
:-) Danbo
Haha - No pressure.
Be firm and have faith in the process..
-- Mal
The cheese has still got the right shape and hasn't tilted.
It was very soft and moist yesterday but today (and after dry salting yesterday) it is more firm and stabile.
The moisture level in the box seems fine with some condensation on the lid.
I would have expected more whey in the bottom of the box but it was only a small amount. The cheese absorbt the salt nicely and only on the top the where still some salt crystals. This will be absorbt after the cheese is turned.
I have kept the "scaffolding" to support the cheese and I think that I will keep it this way at least a week until the blues (hopefully) appears. I remove it when turning the cheese daily and remount it after turning.
Maybe I'm overdocumenting this affinage a bit but I think that it is fun to follow the development of Big Blue (I even named it) on a daily basis.
:-) Danbo
P.s.: Sorry that the images are upside down - if you click them they are OK. I guess that my iPad doesn't do a good job rotating before uploading. Well... Maybe it is just a build in feature for all the Australians on the opposite side of the globe... ;-)
Must a Northern Hemisphere thing - or a downunder issue but all the photos are the wrong way up or down or what ever :P - But the cheese looks good no matter what the orientation.
-- Mal 8)
If you double click on them to open them they right themselves. LOL :o
Yes it is weird... I'll try to improve my tech skills next time. :-)
Ageing - day 3:
Only a tine amount of liquid in the bottom of the box. Cheese turned - no signs of mold yet. Shape still fine - still supported.
:-) Danbo
Looking good, Danbo. There's no such thing as too much documentation. :)
Larry
Larry, I still envy your Gorgonzola Picante (November make) - now that is a beauty.
I agree ... Document and photograph, can never have too much. It just might be that one comment or image that averts an unintended 'throw away' or 'give up...' BTW. the images are still upside down even whenI double click but the story they tell is still the same ..
--Mal
I think that the iPad doesn't actually rotate images but just adds some sort of image property telling how a device should show the image (saving CPU ressources).
Apparently this tag is only understood by iOS devices. I assume that Al is using a device from Apple since he gets the images right when they are clicked and that Mal is not.
- When the images are used on a webpage (inside some HTML) they are not rotated (not even by iOS devices)
- When the image is clicked the original image is shown (without HTML surrounding the image) and then only rotated by iOS devices understandng the image property
:-) Danbo
Danbo----nice Godzilla blue-----you deserve a cheese, just for the courage to handle such a monster ;)
Qdog
Thanks Qdog, I really hope that it will become good! :-)
nice dress!
Ageing - day 4:
Nothing special to report. Like yesterday... Small amount of water in the box. Cheese turned. Still supported by plastic mesh (not really needed anymore I think). Ain't got the blues yet...
:-) Danbo
And you deserve a cheese for dressing this one up in a kinky little corset. :)
Larry
Mal mine turned up with some blue today. Exactly 5 days after the make. I have a good feeling about this one. Yours is looking great!!! :D That extension was a real ballsy move. ;)
Larry: Not my own invention though - advice in Caldwell's book. Without it the cheese would have looked a lot like me relaxing on the sofa... ;-)
Al: I really hope for some blues soon - yours look great. I just need to have a little faith... :-)
Ageing - day 5:
Nothing new to report - same as yesterday... Oh by the way - the corset is off. :-)
Oh this is going to be a good one - I can almost feel the Blueness ready to ooze forth. Mine took 7 days to sprout... !
-- Mal
Mal, thanks for the encouragement... :-) How is your blue comming along?
I luv the way this is going, I always end up with elephant foot (top and bottom ::))
I have an old article (some were on this computer) on Stilton, after hooping they wrapped them in calico for a period of time
that keeps them from slumping and helped bring on the blue. hhhhmmmm were is that??
18 days and no blue I am keeping my fingers crossed (soon, I'm thinkin soon ^-^)
H-K-J: I cross my fingers that your cheese gets the blue before you do... ;-) It'll come! :-)
Ageing - days 6:
Would like to see som mold now... Patience...
Very small amount of water in bottom of the box. Shape is still good.
:-) Danbo
Ageing - day 7:
Would really like some blue notes now. If I really make an effort I can see some smalls signs of blue now (and maybe some geo)...
The recipe say to pierce it at day 7 - should I go for it or wait until there is more blue mold?
:-) Danbo
I see blue!! By tomorrow it will explode all over the place. May have taken longer due to the size of the cheese. ;D
Quote from: Danbo on January 21, 2015, 05:04:33 AM
I think that the iPad doesn't actually rotate images but just adds some sort of image property telling how a device should show the image (saving CPU ressources).
Apparently this tag is only understood by iOS devices. I assume that Al is using a device from Apple since he gets the images right when they are clicked and that Mal is not.
Actually, I think just about any digital camera does it this way [just adding an image property] -- or at least, this is true of images from my Samsung cell phone and from both a point-and-shoot and a DSLR Canon. It is annoying if Apple does this in a non-standard way ...
I use a command-line utility called image-magick to do various sorts of manipulations on images; for example, I run a script that will batch-process images to reduce them to a desired size and make sure they are rotated correctly for posting on the web. This might work on a Mac ... don't know if it is available on an iPad or such.
Awakephd: I think that you are right. Either I'll find an image program for the iPad or just make sure that I have turned it right. :-)
Ageing - day 8:
IT IS HAPPENING! The blue mold is there...
Big blue got pierced today - around 50 holes. Now it has to stay unturned in the cave for 7 days. After this period it is turned and pierced from the other end. Each day the cheese is moved a little to prevent it from sticking to the mat. It is still living in the cave at around 12C.
:-) Danbo
IT'S ALIVE!!! :)
How far into the cheese did you pierce?
Larry
Larry: Yes - I was a bit anxious... I pierced all 21 cm (8 inches) from top to bottom.
:-) Danbo
Oh Yeah Baby !! O0
There's a Monster in the house.
Australia Day !! - Celebrating this wonderful, wide, wild and Beautiful place on Earth
-- Mal
Quote from: Danbo on January 25, 2015, 10:23:30 AM
IT IS HAPPENING! The blue mold is there...
Yay! ;D Congratulations!
Ageing - day 9:
The cheese is soft and smooth - this is what I am looking for. The blues that I have made before Big Blue has been to firm for my taste.
:-) Danbo
Danbo
So Godzilla has the blues-----have you tried playing some music for it ----like "the blues" :)
Congrats on the fine looking cheese.
Qdog
And a couple more music selections... :)
Blue - Joni Mitchell
Blue Sky - The Allman Brothers Band
Blue Monday - New Order
Bullet the Blue Sky - U2
Beneath the Blue Sky - The GoGos
Blue Morning, Blue Day - Foreigner
My Blue Heaven - Fats Domino
Am I Too Blue - Lucinda Williams
Hot, Blue , and Righteous - ZZ Top
Blue Money - Van Morrison
Blue Jean - David Bowie
Blue Bayou - Linda Rondstat
Blue Suede Shoes - Carl Perkins
Bluebird - Buffalo Springfield
Blues Eyes Crying in the Rain - Willie Nelson
Blue Monday - Fats Domino
Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino
Larry
True blue - baby I love you... (Madonna) ;-)
You forgot Blue Moon Larry!! LOL Great looking cheese!!
Doh! The one that's made of cheese! :-[
Larry
Quote from: LoftyNotions on January 26, 2015, 07:37:52 PM
Doh! The one that's made of cheese! :-[
Larry
Yes-Blue Cheese ;D.
Susan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eMkH0s3Vpc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eMkH0s3Vpc)
Nice find, Al. Do you think anyone in that video is still alive? ;)
Larry
Got to play that for my cheese... ;-)
Ageing - day 10:
Nothing much to report. Blue is still spreading... :-)
:-) Danbo
Quote from: Danbo on January 27, 2015, 05:13:54 AM
Got to play that for my cheese... ;-)
They are like plants, they're happier if you play them music!! LOL That cheese is looking great!!! :D
Oh Yeah ! Slow Cooked Blue ! This is going to be a beauty - Hey what do I know ? I've only made one and I haven't even tasted yet ... I just feel it ::). How could it not be with very proud Parents and 100's of Aunts and Uncles in the wings... 8)
-- Mal
Ageing - day 11:
Big Blue has gone
Deep under cover - deep deep under cover O0
Now there is a good cover og blue mold all over. I decided to rub the sides just using my hands. The idea is to make the cover on the sides as ven as possible and perhaps to slow the growth on the sides a bit. I don't know if it works out well... Let's hope so..
The mold smells exactly like mushrooms.
:-) Danbo
Ps. I think that Big Blue is actually more green than blue...
OH NO!!!! NOT GREEN!!!
Just kidding. :) Looking good.
Larry
Larry!! You almost gave me a heartattack... ;-)
What is the idea of the hole in your ripening box Danbo? Are you trying to limit humidity?
Shane
Looking very nice Danbo!! :D
Shane: I have drilled a small hole at each side of the box to enable a bit of air exchange. I also use the same principle for my bries. I'm not sure if it is a good idea but I think it works good.
Al: Thanks! :-)
Thanks Danbo. Yeah, I like the idea also. How do I give a cheese? Haven't worked that one out yet.
Shane
Quote from: Shane on January 28, 2015, 10:35:56 PM
Thanks Danbo. Yeah, I like the idea also. How do I give a cheese? Haven't worked that one out yet.
Shane
Click on the thumbs up link under his name on one of his posts.
Larry
Thanks Shane. :-)
But please bear in mind that I'm not that experienced a cheesemaker. Before you drill holes in your boxes wait for someone more experienced to comment...
Quote
Click on the thumbs up link under his name on one of his posts.
Larry
Done. Thanks. :-)
Shane
Just a word of warning - PR is a very aggressive little beast >:D - so unless you can afford to let it run rampant through your cheese stocks, I would be hesitant to give it an escape vector :)
Just Sayin'
-- Mal
Hi Mal,
I'm not quite sure what you mean? Should I be afraid that the blue mold spreads because I have rubbed the sides?
:-) Danbo
Quote from: OzzieCheese on January 29, 2015, 02:04:29 AM
Just a word of warning - PR is a very aggressive little beast >:D - so unless you can afford to let it run rampant through your cheese stocks, I would be hesitant to give it an escape vector :)
Oh, I've got it... You are referring to the holes in the ripening box... Maybe it is too risky....
:-) Danbo aka Slowbrain ;-)
When I have a blue in the cave I vacuum seal everything else that goes in there. Otherwise, like Mal said, it would all be covered in blue. :o
Fortunately I have a dedicated cave for moldy cheeses. :-)
Show off!! LOL ;D
Al: What I don't have in skill I have to have in equipment... Like a man in a big car with a tiny...
Ageing - day 12:
Nothing much to say - in a couple of days it's going to be turned and pierced from the other end.
:-) Danbo
Quote from: Danbo on January 29, 2015, 06:55:37 PM
Al: What I don't have in skill I have to have in equipment... Like a man in a big car with a tiny...
:-) Danbo
LOL
now now boys . . . :)
But this cheese is lookin good
-- Mal
It looks like the cheese worms burrowed up to the surface to air themselves. :)
I really like the green with the yellow from the milk. Looking good.
Ozzie: I know - I'll try to behave now. ;-)
Thanks both. :-)
Ageing - day 13:
Nothing changed - he's sleeping...
All the fun stuff is happening on the inside! ;D
Hope so... ;-)
Ageing - day 14:
Big blue is looking fine. It looks like some Geo on the sides. Also a strang furry mold has appeared on top. I have made another post about this, as it is more general than the story of big blue.
:-) Danbo
Eyelashes?? LOL
As long as they don't start winking at you... ;)
Thanks for your replies - it means a lot. :-)
I'm happy that it seems to be nothing. I have given Mr. Big Blue some more air and I will pluck his "eyebrows" tomorrow... ;-)
Ageing - day 15:
I have removed the unwanted thing on the cheese and given the spot some vinegar and salt. The cheese has been flipped and pierced from the other end. Before flipping, I removed the excess cheese from where the holes was made. The paste was soft, smooth and very easily spreadable - and it tasted as a mild blue. Very nice...
:-) Danbo
Holy cheese, Batman! (or is it holey?) :)
Good move. If that fungus was making the cheese that soft that fast it was NOT a good thing. Even PC takes quite a while. Did you sanitize the container to make sure the fungus wasn't resident in there?
Lofty: ;-)
Al: Actually I didn't sanitize the box after the removal - thanks for the advice. I will do that today. What do you mean by "If that funds was making that soft that fast it was NOT a good thing"? Do I have a problem?
Big blue is about to become a big brother - I'm doing a similar blue now while I write this - Fat Blue.
It is obvious that together they will be known as The Blues Brothers... ;-)
Fat Blue will be much wider but not that tall at all (due to my mold-cave being crowded). For this one I'm using goat kid rennet paste and goat kid lipase to hive the cheese an even more strong snd sharp taste.
Actually I was planning to make an Appenzeller but when I was about to meassure the cultures I got confused because the amounts needed was so small. I didn't want to take any chances so I decided that I would just make another blue and plan the Appenzeller a bit better.
How the hell do you turn off this damn spell auto correct??? :o You should delve into the washed rind cheeses. Tallegio and Epoisses are awesome and with your skills they'd turn out great!
Do you think that the fungus (or what it was) has affected the cheese? Do you think that I have a problem?
:-) Danbo
Not at all! You caught it early and took care of it. ;D
Thanks Al, I'm just a little anxious, as my earlier blue cheese attempts have been a little %#^%^#%%#!! ;-)
Just took a pic of my latest one. Downloading the camera now. I tend to keep the RH in my cave at just above 80. A bit drier than most but I never get "unwanted" molds. You can pick them up in the initial drying process at room temp though. If things get wet, mold usually follows. That goes for anywhere.
I don't know if you've seen this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unVdU4MgRAA) Danbo but it gives some excellent information on Stilton that can be applied to other blues. The rind is the most informative as is the timing involved.
Hi Al,
That cheese is looking good! :-)
Yes, I've seen the video before. I think that I'll try to smoothen the surface on my new blue with a knife like in the video. Thanks for the tip.
:-) Danbo
Ageing - day 16:
I have moved Big Blue to a new sanitized box. And the new blue cheese that I made yesterday has just been salted - same weight as Big Blue but not that tall.
:-) Danbo
Taller is better with blues. Both looking great though. :D
I know (actually just thought that it was only to do with tradition). I don't have room in my mold-cave for another tall one right now. I should have made 3 smaller tall ones when I tjink about it...
:-) Danbo
Ageing - day 17:
The Geo (and maybe a little Candidum) is covering more and more of the rind on the sides. Looks fine to me.
:-) Danbo
Looking perfect to me!!! :D I'm not positive but I believe the height vs diameter dimensions may have something to do with the piercing and allowing the air to get to the center of the cheese. Just looking at the mechanics of the thing again. :o LOL
Wow. Very nice.,
Is the Geo and PC just from airborne contamination?
Al: Thanks! I think that you're right - there must be a reason for the special aspect ratio of traditional blues.
Pastpawn: Yes - the only thing that I have done to the sides is to rub them earlier to slow the blue mold a bit. It seems to work. Geo I always get on my cheeses. I don't know if there is PC, but it looked like it. There was bries in my mold-cave a week ago, so it could come from them.
:-) Danbo
The height of the cheese also controls curd compaction. The taller the cheese, the firmer it packs together.
Larry
LoftyNotions:
Maybe it is tall in order to make the relatively dry curd used for blues stick together without press.
It'll be interesting to see if there's much difference in internal bluing between the 2 cheeses.
Larry
Larry: That is if there is any internal blueing... ;-) Hope so...
Ageing - day 18:
Waiting is hard...
:-) Danbo
... and his baby brother... :-)
Quote from: Danbo on February 04, 2015, 08:34:03 AM
... and his baby brother... :-)
You're stocking up on the blue huh? Man I want to make a big one like that. They look GREAT!
Let's hope that they will be... :-)
Ageing - day 19:
Just the daily status...
:-) Danbo
Looking good!! Does it have a nice firm, dry exterior?
Not really... It's medium soft... I don't know if it is supposed to?
Mine has a firm shell you can press in. Thinking about sticking the trier into it tonight to see what's going on.
That's exciting - I wish that I had one...
Ageing - day 20:
Just the daily Big Blue update and an image of little brother...
Sorry that the images are upside-down - oops.
:-) Danbo
Looking great.
Larry
Thanks Larry! :-)
That tall blue looks exactly like mine did last night. ^-^
Great - then it can be all wrong with Mister Big Blue... :-)
Ageing - day 21:
Quote from: Danbo on February 05, 2015, 08:07:22 PM
That's exciting - I wish that I had one...
You mean to tell me that with all of that gear you don't have a trier? LOL Got a veggie peeler or an apple corer? They both work just as well.
No, but I wish that I had one. :-)
I have an apple peeler/corer but as you can imagine I choose a gizmo that could have been invented by Gyro Gearloose... I don't think that it would do as a trier... ;-)
:-) Danbo
LOL
Ageing - day 22:
From now on Big Blue will be flipped each day (7 days turning each day, pierced and 7 days without turning, turned and pierced and 7 days without turning, rest of the ageing turned each day).
Little Brother has aged for 7 days now. Not a whole lot of blue, but it really smells like a very nice bluecheese.
It's two different types og P. Roqueforti used for the two cheeses. I don't know the brand of the one used on Big Blue. The one used on Little Brother is Danisco's Choozit P. Roqueforti PV LYO.
:-) Danbo
PV is what I've been using also.
From Danisco's pdf: Very fast growth rate; strong blue taste; Bluish green color; very creamy consistency, for example, Edelpilz, Roquefort, and strong Gorgonzola type.
Larry
Thanks for the info Larry. It's going a bit slow for Big Blue's baby brother but I can smell that Roqueforti is present...
Ageing - day 23:
I hope it's not getting too boring with these daily updates... But today Big Blue's baby brother decided to turn blue - he even got pierced. ;-)
I can't believe that Big Blue has only aged a third of the planned ageing... Waiting is hard!
:-) Danbo
Does juvenile piercing require parental consent in Denmark? ;)
It's good to have a visual record you can look back on, and I think it can help others wondering if their cheese is developing properly.
Larry
;-) Thanks
Ageing - day 24:
Looking good!! :D
Thanks! :-)
Cool, cool.
Every-day updates seem a little too much on natural rinds, but perhaps I should try doing that with a washed rind? Because those do have noticable differences fairly quickly... planning on doing a Tilsit next week. What do y'all think?
It would be great! I never made any washed rind cheeses. Daily progression updates would be a great help to me.
Not a lot is happening to Big Blue from day to day. I think that I will do a little less updates until it's time for tasting. :-)
:-) Danbo
OK.... I know... Perhaps I should have waited, but Big Blue was beginning to turn into Big Foot (elephantfoot), so I decided to open it...
The structure should have been more dry and open so the blue mold was not as dominant as I wanted. I need to practise a bit more.
The cheese tastes good though. It has be divided and vacuum packed. It's very soft, mild and has a nice taste.
:-) Danbo
Yep, practice makes perfect. It'll age well and get sharper, even in a vac bag. A cheese for the grand opening.
Is this about 4 to 5 weeks?
Larry
I plan on letting the curd for my next blue sit overnight. That's how the creameries do it.
Larry: Thanks. Yes, I figured that further ageing was easier in bags. I know that the blue won't spread without air, but I don't think that it would spread more anyway... :)
Al: I didn't know that. Let us know know when you make your next blue... 8)
The firmer curd allows for internal air spaces. The reason you don't press blues is pressing closes those spaces. The outside is smoothed to prevent premature ripening. https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=unVdU4MgRAA
Nice Danbo! A blueC4Y :). I myself like to wrap my leftover blues with something less "occlusive" than vac bags like 2-ply cheese paper or with parchment or wax paper then saran. This provides a bit more air exchange than high-barrier film and you should get additional aging even in the fridge.
Quote from: Al Lewis on February 15, 2015, 08:43:35 PM
I plan on letting the curd for my next blue sit overnight. That's how the creameries do it.
That's how the first day hard curd is done on Gorgonzola Picantes.
Larry
Thanks for the comments! :-)
I tried to get the curd dry enough for making spaces but I realize that it should be even more dry. On the other hand I am very happy with the smooth, soft and spreadable consistency of this cheese. I guess it's about finding the sweet spot.
I was only aged 4 weeks. If aged for 8-10 weeks it would have been like cream cheese... ;-)
I was thinking about the advice to leave the curds over night... What about PH? Doesn't the PH get too low? Does the final cheese become dry, or is it just a matter of time before the Roqueforti makes it mushy?
I vacuum packed it so that shouldn't worry about cross contaminating my other cheeses. I guess that I could just wrap them in paper, store them in a box and give them some air from time to time.
:-) Danbo
Final pH on the inner curd for Gorgonzola ends up at between 4.6 and 4.8. I wouldn't characterize the consistency as soft. It will cut and maintain its form, but is "mushable" onto a cracker. It cuts easily with a butter knife. It's not oozy.
I've personally had bad experience with ammoniation from either letting my blues age too long, or storing them wrapped in anything that lets some air in. I think blues age well in vacuum bags, it's just that the blue color doesn't develop any further. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to ammonia. Try it both ways and see which method you prefer.
One thing I don't think we've considered when we're discussing aging times is which P. roqueforti strain we're using. Danisco has 6 different strains with different growth rates, flavors (strong vs. mild), colors, cheese shelf life, consistency, etc. To date, I've been using the PV strain, which is very fast with a strong blue taste. This typically gives me excellent mold development in the open structure inside my Gorgonzolas in a short time and is probably why I've settled on 5 to 7 weeks for my cut date. If using a milder slower culture, I'd probably have to lengthen my aging time out. Using that strain I can't imagine letting a blue age 3 or 4 months. It'll be interesting to try a slower milder type some day.
It's all one giant balancing act. :) Curd just firm enough to provide some internal space, but not so firm that the cheese won't hold together. Aged just long enough to give us the sharp bite we want, but not so long that there are flavor defects.
Danisco's pdf is attached.
Larry
Quote from: Danbo on February 16, 2015, 05:21:45 AM
Thanks for the comments! :-)
I tried to get the curd dry enough for making spaces but I realize that it should be even more dry. On the other hand I am very happy with the smooth, soft and spreadable consistency of this cheese. I guess it's about finding the sweet spot.
I was only aged 4 weeks. If aged for 8-10 weeks it would have been like cream cheese... ;-)
I was thinking about the advice to leave the curds over night... What about PH? Doesn't the PH get too low? Does the final cheese become dry, or is it just a matter of time before the Roqueforti makes it mushy?
I vacuum packed it so that shouldn't worry about cross contaminating my other cheeses. I guess that I could just wrap them in paper, store them in a box and give them some air from time to time.
:-) Danbo
If you watch the video I posted and listen to the times they are using they are way out there. I believe they wait 5 weeks to pierce. My only concern about leaving the curd overnight is being able to smooth it. Just hoping it retains enough moisture for that. The ones in the video certainly do. Also, I've been trying an experiment where I wrapped mine in a single layer of butter muslin, 90 TPI, and placed it on the bottom shelf. So far the mold hasn't migrated at all.
Thanks Larry and Al,
I'm using Choozit PV fot Big Blue's baby brother. Which PR was used in Big Blue I don't know (it just said PR).
I actually think that the ageing time was OK. It tastes very well and is easy to spread. The only problem was that the curd was too compact.
I think that I will see how Big Blue's baby brother will develop and then make a blue with a drier curd.
:-) Danbo
I use PV due to the color and ripening time. Best one I ever had was the packets from Mad Millies. LOL Don't know what the strain is but it worked great!! The one they sell now is a mixture of cultures. Haven't tried that one.
Quote from: LoftyNotions on February 16, 2015, 12:55:37 PM
I've personally had bad experience with ammoniation from either letting my blues age too long, or storing them wrapped in anything that lets some air in. I think blues age well in vacuum bags, it's just that the blue color doesn't develop any further. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to ammonia. Try it both ways and see which method you prefer.
I've got a big blue aging now and will try both ways (paper and vacuum bagging). I was mainly talking about allowing air permeation to occur for blues (or leftover portions) that could stand to age longer and putting in fridge to help slow things down. I have had issues with ammoniation as well and still learning how to prevent and if bagging does it then bagging it will be ;).
Not sure why John but for some reason they only recommend wrapping blues in foil. Doesn't make sense to me as the factories in England wrap them in paper prior to shipping so they will continue to ripen. Only thing that makes sense is that perhaps the thin foil used creates an air tight boundary that stops ripening. Vacuum bagging, I would think, would stop the process as the whole reason or piercing is to get air to the mold so it will grow. No air, no more mold growth? H-K-J (https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8062) would be the guy to ask as he makes about one of these a week and has done pretty much everything you can do with a stilton. He's my go to guy for making stilton.
John, yes, if you need more blue (or mold of any kind) development, paper is the way to go. I keep my Reblochons in paper in my main refrigerator as long as I can. When they start ammoniating I take them out of the paper and vac bag them. It seems to extend the shelf life by a bit.
Al, The Stilton video is really good. It'd be nice if they gave away all their secrets, like temperature and humidity, but what can you do? ;) The interesting takeaways for me were:
1. The 5 week aging before puncturing, and moving the cheese from room to room during that time. Would it be safe to speculate that each succeeding room gets drier that the last? My understanding of Stiltons is that the gnarly mahogany rind is one of the defining characteristics. So with a Stilton, you totally develop the outside before allowing any internal mold growth? There is probably some lypolytic and proteolytic activity going on at the same time, but pretty limited until the insides get air.
2. They mentioned that the best ages for eating are between 12 and 14 weeks, and they ship their cheeses to reach their final destinations within that time frame. So they'd want them to still be aging and developing mold during shipping, thus the paper wrap. That basically gives a 7 to 9 week window for mold development.
3. The milled curd is salted.
4. The sides get punctured.
Gorgonzolas, on the other hand, get dry salted externally after being formed, brine washed several times during affinage, and are perforated on top at 7 days, and the bottom is perforated at 14 days. From the Gorgonzola video I watched, it looks like they are aged at about 4°C (39°F) for 60 to 90 days and then wrapped in foil and shipped.
So what I'm doing isn't really following what the video showed, since my affinage temperature runs about 13°C (55°F) and I age for a total of 6 to 7 weeks before bagging.
I'm really interested in everyone's comments on this. It's a great learning experience for me.
There is a lot of process variation that makes for interesting differences in "blue".
Larry
I think that the whole Blue experience has been one of slow discovery but a very enjoyable one. My challenge is to now reproduce what I did the first time. John knows of my issues with my 'Cave' but basically put, the fridge didn't have any defrost cycle and would always form a sheet of ice on the back wall. And with the new wooden shelves actually caused a temp stratification in my cave where the top would be as high as 15-16 Deg C and the bottom where my Blue was 'Blueing' was only 8 DegC. So, I was in a bit of a pickle where although the ripening container was closed - therefore keeping the moisture in, the temperature was cooler than expected. Recently having got rid of the 'Cave' MkII and purchased 'Cave' MKIII (on that actually works properly) I am wondering if my first was a fluke !! Things to ponder.
-- Mal
Mal, there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, or in this case, get a tasty blue cheese. :)
Larry
Need some help finding the link to Al's video. This thread is just too darn long ;D.
Hi John,
It's this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unVdU4MgRAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unVdU4MgRAA)
:-) Danbo
Thanks Danbo. I watched it a couple of times and found it quite interesting and helped me visualize Larry's comments. As I'm trying to get "seriously blue" these days and since I can't do a mind-meld with H-J-K :) resources like these really help. I'm still waiting to hear back from my Clemson blue cheese contact but so far crickets.
The piercing machine and pattern were esp. interesting to me. It looked like the spacing was pretty close (1" or so) and the needles are angled so that after 360 deg. turning you get a grid hole pattern with maybe 1/2" spacing. Googled up this video of a similar more automated machine that shows the process better.
(http://youtu.be/MvRpmJHO6uQ)
Interesting part of that video is the paper wrapped around the cheese while it's being pierced. Watched a bunch of video on Stiltons and never saw this. Curious.
That's a lot of holes...
Yes it is and from what you can see it appears the needles enter the same holes twice, once up and once down. Would hate to have to pierce this many holes by hand.
I actually got a blister on my right thumb last time I pierced a blue... ;-)
I may have to have one of the apprentices fix me something up at work. ;) LOL
I need to get me some apprentices first... ;-)
LOL These are Toolmaker Apprentices. Not Cheesemaker. :) LOL
Yep, I could use a couple of those too... ;-)
Big Blue's brother was opened today.
Just as I wanted it. Mushy and with a strong yet sweet taste of blue. This time I was lucky! :-)
:-) Danbo
Great bluing!!! I wonder why it got such a soft paste? Great job!! AC4U!!
From now on you can call it skill. No luck involved. ;)
Beautiful cheese, Danbo. AC4U
Larry
Beautiful! Danbo: the king of the mushy blues and my hero!
Al: Thanks - it's very close to a soft Gorgonzola in smoothness and texture.
Larry: I still think that I need a good potion of luck to create another one. ;-)
Jim: LOL! ;-)
A Cheese from me as well... Very nice.. :). Some strains of P.R. have a very active protinease characteristics and as these beauties mature from the inside out it gets 'mushy' on the inside more than the rind - but what a beautiful looking soft blue..
Well Done :)
Thanks Mal,
I still have a lot to learn to be as good as the best blue masters in here (you included).
The PR-strain used was Danisco Choozit PV:
CHOOZIT P. roqueforti PV
Very fast
Strong blue taste
Bluish-green
Very creamy consistency, e.g. Edelpilz, Roquefort and strong Gorgonzola-type
http://orchard-dairy.co.uk/downloads/ChoozitRipening&MouldCultures_20022009102952.pdf (http://orchard-dairy.co.uk/downloads/ChoozitRipening&MouldCultures_20022009102952.pdf)
:-) Danbo
That's the same strain I use. ???
My last blue also got very gooey -- I wasn't sure if it was due to the PR (in my case, I am using the PS strain), or to some geo that also appeared to be on the surface, or both.
PV does show to produce a very creamy cheese. I haven't noticed it personally, but I'm really drying my first day curd for Gorgonzola. Here's the section from the Danisco PDF.
CHOOZIT™ Very fast Strong blue taste Bluish-green Very creamy consistency, e.g. Edelpilz,
P. roqueforti PV Roquefort and strong Gorgonzola-type
Larry
Larry, I really envy your blues... :-)
My stiltons have a creamy texture but nothing like that. Almost looks like PC.